A Mascot

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
86 messages Options
12345
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

heathmatlock


On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Andrew Coppin <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 16/11/2011 04:50 AM, heathmatlock wrote:

If you're going to draw a piece of graphics, why use ASCII workarounds like "_|_", when you can use the real thing (i.e., "⊥")?

Noted, will change.

Are we going to have a contest for a mascot?


--
Heath Matlock
+1 256 274 4225

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

heathmatlock
Last time to upload images for a long time, the break is here and I have work to do! I got a bit tired of explaining that it's a lamb, and not something similar to a rat, so I made the face less abstract. My little niece liked it better than the old one for some reason. Here's some images I threw together, much more left to add to the environments:

http://imgur.com/a/niiTF#0

Anywho, I'll quit spamming about the mascot until someone decides to create a poll.

--
Heath Matlock
+1 256 274 4225

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Ketil Malde-5
In reply to this post by John Meacham
John Meacham <[hidden email]> writes:

> People tend to concentrate on the lambda which cooresponds to the
> functional aspect of haskell when designing logos. Not nearly enough
> attention is paid to the other striking feature, the

What about types?  This is a distinguishing feature from many of the
other lambda-users out there, isn't \lambda_\tau used to signify that?

-k
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

João Paulo Pizani Flor
Apart from the whole big discussion about an "official" mascot for
Haskell, I for one am SURELY adopting Da, the Lamb from now on on my
desktop background and on the lid of my laptop! :D

I think some cute animal to connect with is something nice to us, as a
community :)  Could you imagine Linux without Tux?! Now I cannot
imagine Haskell without the Lamb Da.


João Paulo Pizani Flor
[hidden email]
Computer Science
Federal University of Santa Catarina - Brazil



On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 7:23 AM, Ketil Malde <[hidden email]> wrote:

> John Meacham <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> People tend to concentrate on the lambda which cooresponds to the
>> functional aspect of haskell when designing logos. Not nearly enough
>> attention is paid to the other striking feature, the
>
> What about types?  This is a distinguishing feature from many of the
> other lambda-users out there, isn't \lambda_\tau used to signify that?
>
> -k
> --
> If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Karol Samborski
Hi all,

This is my sister's proposition:
http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png

What do you think?

Best,
Karol Samborski

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Karol Samborski
2011/11/21 Karol Samborski <[hidden email]>:
> Hi all,
>
> This is my sister's proposition:
> http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png
>
> What do you think?
>

Second version: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da2.png

Best,
Karol Samborski

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

heathmatlock
Cute! I like it!

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Karol Samborski <[hidden email]> wrote:
2011/11/21 Karol Samborski <[hidden email]>:
> Hi all,
>
> This is my sister's proposition:
> http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png
>
> What do you think?
>

Second version: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da2.png

Best,
Karol Samborski

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe



--
Heath Matlock
+1 256 274 4225

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Ben Franksen
heathmatlock wrote:
> Cute! I like it!

Yea, it's cute. I don't like the formula, though: \x -> x + x is just too
trivial and not very Haskellish. Something higher order is the minimum
requirement, IMO. The original (lambda knights) formula was cool: the fixed
point operator is directly related to recursion, which is reflected in the
picture that contains itself; note also that defining this operator requires
an untyped language, so this fits LISP quite well (but not Haskell).

What about the formula for function composition

  (f . g) x = f (g x)

maybe together with its type (or maybe only the type)

  (.) :: (b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c

Extremely cool are GADTs, such as

  data Eq a b where Refl :: Eq a a

Or, if you'd like something more obscure but still at the center of what
Haskell is about, take the mother of all monads

  m >>= f = \k -> m (\a -> (f a) k)

This is a formula I can spend a day contemplating and still wonder if I have
_really_ understood it. And doesn't that properly reflect the depth and
richness of Haskell?

Cheers
Ben

> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Karol Samborski
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> 2011/11/21 Karol Samborski <[hidden email]>:
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > This is my sister's proposition:
>> > http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>> >
>>
>> Second version: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da2.png
>>
>> Best,
>> Karol Samborski
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>
>
>
>



_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Richard A. O'Keefe
In reply to this post by Karol Samborski

On 21/11/2011, at 9:22 PM, Karol Samborski wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> This is my sister's proposition:
> http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png
>
> What do you think?

It looks like a skittle with a baby bonnet.
C'est mignon, mais ce n'est pas la guerre
as Pierre Bosquet almost said.


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Carlos López Camey
In reply to this post by Ben Franksen
> Yea, it's cute. I don't like the formula, though: \x -> x + x is just too
> trivial and not very Haskellish. Something higher order is the minimum
> requirement, IMO. The original (lambda knights) formula was cool: the fixed
> point operator is directly related to recursion, which is reflected in the
> picture that contains itself; note also that defining this operator requires
> an untyped language, so this fits LISP quite well (but not Haskell).

I would go with something like ! forall A B. A -> B, saying that "type
casting" under the C-H isomorphism is a lie and therefore we all must
avoid it :D, but I don't like the "!" in front of it. Just my 2 cents.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Jeremy Shaw-3
In reply to this post by heathmatlock
I think the artwork is nice, but I am not sure that a lamb is an
appropriate mascot for Haskell.

A mascot is supposed to represent characteristics, emotions, or
desires that a particular group of people aspire to have, be like,
etc. To outsiders, it provides a quick way to see if it might be a
group they would like to belong to, and for insiders, it helps
strengthen the bond and group identity by reminding them what they
stand for.

So far, the only justification I have noticed for why a lamb would
represent Haskell users is that there is a pun about lambda's -- which
only makes sense if you know English. Sheep are generally thought of
as:

 - weak and needing protection
 - easily lead astray
 - being lead to the slaughter
 - dumb and easily lost

Not sure those are traits that Haskeller's generally aspire to have.

I think Haskeller's like Haskell because it is:

 - elegant
 - sophisticated
 - reliable
 - robust

Haskeller's tend to be people who are curious. Pioneers who are
willing to go off the beaten path in search of something better.
People who are willing to evaluate something based on its merits
rather than the mere approval of the mainstream. People who aspire to
create elegant, beautiful code. People looking to better their skills,
even if they don't use Haskell for most of their coding. And there is
definitely a pragmatic aspect. Part of the appeal of Haskell is that
it can actually be used for many real world applications and can often
do the job better. The fact that you can use it to deliver more
reliable and robust code in less time, is a very real and tangible
benefit.

Here are some suggestions of my own. I am not really excited about any
of them either -- but they give some examples of how I think a mascot
might work:

 - owl: traditionally thought of as 'wise'. Known for their keen
(in)sight. Of course, some cultures believe they are a bad omen and a
sign of impending death..

 - honey badger - can't beat that for 'robust' and 'fearless',
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPKlryXwmXk

 - james bond - he's sophisticated, reliable, and he does it with
'class'. hahah, more silly puns :p Of course, he is also not public
domain :) Plus, it is too male oriented.

In summary, a mascot is supposed to elicit an emotional response from
people and help create a bond. To do that, it needs to provide
emotional leadership and say that, "if you use Haskell, you can be
like X". That doesn't it mean it can't be cute. People do tend to bond
easily to cute things (like kittens!). But I don't think cute is
enough. I also don't think that representing 'features' of Haskell,
like 'laziness' or 'higher order' is the right core appeal either.
That is too mental -- not enough emotion. Those things can, of course,
be represented in the depiction of the mascot. Nothing wrong with
cleverly hiding lamba's and _|_ in the picture. But, for example,
saying that Haskell is 'lazy' so we should pick a sloth, is not really
a good choice, IMO.

- jeremy



On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:01 PM, heathmatlock <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I liked Go's mascot, and I figure it couldn't hurt to have our own. I spent
> the past hour making this:
> http://i.imgur.com/Mib6Q.png
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Heath Matlock
> +1 256 274 4225
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>
>

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

serialhex
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:22 AM, Jeremy Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
 - honey badger - can't beat that for 'robust' and 'fearless',
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPKlryXwmXk

i think you were referring to this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7pGZudN8rE (nsfw... almost)
i +1 a honey badger for haskell.  i'm a newb and it rocks!!
hex

--
*  my blog is cooler than yours: http://serialhex.github.com
*  The wise man said: "Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
*  As a programmer, it is your job to put yourself out of business. What you do today can be automated tomorrow. ~Doug McIlroy
---
CFO: “What happens if we train people and they leave?”
CTO: “What if we don’t and they stay?”

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Karol Samborski
Thank you all for appreciate my sister's work. I will send her your
comments and then will see :)

Best,
Karol Samborski

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Ketil Malde-5
In reply to this post by serialhex
serialhex <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:22 AM, Jeremy Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>  - honey badger - can't beat that for 'robust' and 'fearless',
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPKlryXwmXk

> i think you were referring to this vid:

Original channel with lots of other animals and similar
commentary. Certainly a refreshing alternative to the overly dramatic
Discovery/Animal Planet style.  And plenty of mascot material there:

  http://www.youtube.com/czg123

-k
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Gábor Lehel
In reply to this post by Jeremy Shaw-3
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 6:22 AM, Jeremy Shaw <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think the artwork is nice, but I am not sure that a lamb is an
> appropriate mascot for Haskell.
>
> A mascot is supposed to represent characteristics, emotions, or
> desires that a particular group of people aspire to have, be like,
> etc. To outsiders, it provides a quick way to see if it might be a
> group they would like to belong to, and for insiders, it helps
> strengthen the bond and group identity by reminding them what they
> stand for.
>
> So far, the only justification I have noticed for why a lamb would
> represent Haskell users is that there is a pun about lambda's -- which
> only makes sense if you know English. Sheep are generally thought of
> as:
>
>  - weak and needing protection
>  - easily lead astray
>  - being lead to the slaughter
>  - dumb and easily lost
>
> Not sure those are traits that Haskeller's generally aspire to have.
>
> I think Haskeller's like Haskell because it is:
>
>  - elegant
>  - sophisticated
>  - reliable
>  - robust
>
> Haskeller's tend to be people who are curious. Pioneers who are
> willing to go off the beaten path in search of something better.
> People who are willing to evaluate something based on its merits
> rather than the mere approval of the mainstream. People who aspire to
> create elegant, beautiful code. People looking to better their skills,
> even if they don't use Haskell for most of their coding. And there is
> definitely a pragmatic aspect. Part of the appeal of Haskell is that
> it can actually be used for many real world applications and can often
> do the job better. The fact that you can use it to deliver more
> reliable and robust code in less time, is a very real and tangible
> benefit.
>
> Here are some suggestions of my own. I am not really excited about any
> of them either -- but they give some examples of how I think a mascot
> might work:
>
>  - owl: traditionally thought of as 'wise'. Known for their keen
> (in)sight. Of course, some cultures believe they are a bad omen and a
> sign of impending death..
>
>  - honey badger - can't beat that for 'robust' and 'fearless',
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPKlryXwmXk
>
>  - james bond - he's sophisticated, reliable, and he does it with
> 'class'. hahah, more silly puns :p Of course, he is also not public
> domain :) Plus, it is too male oriented.
>
> In summary, a mascot is supposed to elicit an emotional response from
> people and help create a bond. To do that, it needs to provide
> emotional leadership and say that, "if you use Haskell, you can be
> like X". That doesn't it mean it can't be cute. People do tend to bond
> easily to cute things (like kittens!). But I don't think cute is
> enough. I also don't think that representing 'features' of Haskell,
> like 'laziness' or 'higher order' is the right core appeal either.
> That is too mental -- not enough emotion. Those things can, of course,
> be represented in the depiction of the mascot. Nothing wrong with
> cleverly hiding lamba's and _|_ in the picture. But, for example,
> saying that Haskell is 'lazy' so we should pick a sloth, is not really
> a good choice, IMO.
>
> - jeremy

I disagree. I think cuteness is very nearly enough by its own. Tux has
been an incredibly successful mascot - I can't think of any other
technology-related (non-game) mascot who even comes close. What
positive qualities does he convey, apart from being cute? Not many.
He's fat and happy. That's good - it's a positive association and it
attracts people. The drawings of Lamb Da so far have tended more
towards "cheerful and happy", and I think that's great; it has the
same qualities. I think it works.

I feel like getting stuck up on requiring the mascot to be
sophisticated and non-mainstream and elegant and intelligent would
just send the signal that we're stuck up. (And, I suppose, that there
might be a kernel of truth there, but it's not a positive.)

I do agree completely that focusing on specific features like laziness
or what have you is the wrong path, and that they are more appropriate
as an 'easter egg' sort of thing.

And all of that said, I would also submit that there's a big
difference in perception between "lamb" and "sheep": Sheep, in common
perception, are big and docile and stupid, whereas lambs are mainly
just cute and adorable.

I wasn't initially thrilled with the idea - a mascot? really? why? -
but over the course of this discussion I've grown fond of Lamb Da.
She's cute!

(The pun is a very nice plus, and a great excuse. Sure, it's English,
but lambs are cute in any language, and Haskell itself, when it uses
language, is English. I don't think it's a huge deal.)

>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:01 PM, heathmatlock <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I liked Go's mascot, and I figure it couldn't hurt to have our own. I spent
>> the past hour making this:
>> http://i.imgur.com/Mib6Q.png
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> --
>> Heath Matlock
>> +1 256 274 4225
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>



--
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Gábor Lehel
In reply to this post by Karol Samborski
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Karol Samborski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2011/11/21 Karol Samborski <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> This is my sister's proposition:
>> http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da.png
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>
> Second version: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/The_Lamb_Da2.png
>
> Best,
> Karol Samborski

I like (his?) (her?) (its?) ears. The pink one is too pink, but I'm a guy.

>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>



--
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Karol Samborski
And what about a cat? The cat is associated with elegance and a kind of magic.
Please take a look: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/kot.png

Best,
Karol Samborski

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Gábor Lehel
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Karol Samborski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And what about a cat? The cat is associated with elegance and a kind of magic.
> Please take a look: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/kot.png
>
> Best,
> Karol Samborski

That's true, and I did think of it. But I don't think it's distinctive
enough. Cats are *everywhere*, you can't really claim them for
Haskell. You can't ever get to the point where people (even people who
know about it) will see a picture of a cat and think "Haskell", the
way you can with a penguin and Linux, and like you potentially could
with a lamb and Haskell. Other people may disagree, of course. (And
it's a shame, too, because a cat would be a great choice if they were
somewhat more obscure and it weren't the case that every other person
keeps two of them.)

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Thomas Davie
In reply to this post by Karol Samborski
On 22 Nov 2011, at 15:40, Karol Samborski wrote:

> And what about a cat? The cat is associated with elegance and a kind of magic.
> Please take a look: http://origami.bieszczady.pl/images/kot.png

My biggest criticism of the more recent ones is simply not to get carried away with magic haskell expressions, no matter how simple you think they are.  The job of a mascot is to make people think "aww, cute, I should clearly look into something with such a cute mascot", I suspect the response here would be more like the standard Haskell "holy crap, crazy letters and symbols, get away from me!"

Bob
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: A Mascot

Vincent Hanquez
In reply to this post by Jeremy Shaw-3
On 11/22/2011 05:22 AM, Jeremy Shaw wrote:
> I think the artwork is nice, but I am not sure that a lamb is an
> appropriate mascot for Haskell.
> <snip>
I disagree as well. I think you're looking too much into what a mascot should
means; looking at others mascot, linux's tux, freebsd's demon, go lang's
thingie, perl (and ocaml)'s camel, java's duke (huh?), ..., do you think that
any of them subscribe to your description of what a mascot should be ?

I think cute is good enough, and heathmatlock's lamb da, a good and simple name
with a funny pun, definitely made me smile, and hope that's something i see on
haskell tshirts soon ;-)

(And as a side note, i think the honey badger looks like a brute animal, not an
elegant and beautiful animal.)

--
Vincent

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
12345