A modest proposal (re the Platform)

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A modest proposal (re the Platform)

Mark Lentczner-2
Looks like GHC 7.8 is pretty near release.

And while I know that we really like to have a GHC out for a while, and perhaps see the .1 release, before we incorporate it into the Platform, this GHC, while including many new and anticipated things, seems pretty well hammered on.

Combine that with the now two-month late (all my fault) HP release for 2013.4.0.0 isn't slated to really have all that much new in it, in part because it is the same GHC as the last HP release.

Now - it would really look foolish, and taken poorly (methinks) if we release a HP this month - only to have GHC 7.8 release early Feb. Folks would really be head scratching, and wondering about the platform.

SO - I'm proposing ditching the now late 2013.4.0.0 (I admit, I'm finding it hard to get excited by it!) and instead move right to putting out 2014.2.0.0 - aimed for mid-March to mid-April.

This release would have several big changes:
  • GHC 7.8
  • New shake based build for the Platform
  • Support for validation via package tests
  • Support for a "server variant" (no OpenGL or other GUI stuff if we had any)
  • Automated version info w/historical version matrix page
  • Several significant packages: I'd like to see Aeson at the very least, updated OpenGL stuff
I'd also propose changes for the Mac build (though this is obviously independent):
  • Built from GHC source, not dist. release. (guarantees consistent release)
  • Only 64bit (I know, controversial...)
Thoughts?


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Re: A modest proposal (re the Platform)

Johan Tibell-2

+1

On Jan 19, 2014 3:15 PM, "Mark Lentczner" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Looks like GHC 7.8 is pretty near release.

And while I know that we really like to have a GHC out for a while, and perhaps see the .1 release, before we incorporate it into the Platform, this GHC, while including many new and anticipated things, seems pretty well hammered on.

Combine that with the now two-month late (all my fault) HP release for 2013.4.0.0 isn't slated to really have all that much new in it, in part because it is the same GHC as the last HP release.

Now - it would really look foolish, and taken poorly (methinks) if we release a HP this month - only to have GHC 7.8 release early Feb. Folks would really be head scratching, and wondering about the platform.

SO - I'm proposing ditching the now late 2013.4.0.0 (I admit, I'm finding it hard to get excited by it!) and instead move right to putting out 2014.2.0.0 - aimed for mid-March to mid-April.

This release would have several big changes:
  • GHC 7.8
  • New shake based build for the Platform
  • Support for validation via package tests
  • Support for a "server variant" (no OpenGL or other GUI stuff if we had any)
  • Automated version info w/historical version matrix page
  • Several significant packages: I'd like to see Aeson at the very least, updated OpenGL stuff
I'd also propose changes for the Mac build (though this is obviously independent):
  • Built from GHC source, not dist. release. (guarantees consistent release)
  • Only 64bit (I know, controversial...)
Thoughts?


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Re: A modest proposal (re the Platform)

Bob Ippolito
In reply to this post by Mark Lentczner-2
+1

I'm just a user, but I'm very excited about the possibility of getting a GHC 7.8 platform release sooner than later (especially considering Mio and the other great additions). Another release with the same GHC wouldn't do me much good.


On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Mark Lentczner <[hidden email]> wrote:
Looks like GHC 7.8 is pretty near release.

And while I know that we really like to have a GHC out for a while, and perhaps see the .1 release, before we incorporate it into the Platform, this GHC, while including many new and anticipated things, seems pretty well hammered on.

Combine that with the now two-month late (all my fault) HP release for 2013.4.0.0 isn't slated to really have all that much new in it, in part because it is the same GHC as the last HP release.

Now - it would really look foolish, and taken poorly (methinks) if we release a HP this month - only to have GHC 7.8 release early Feb. Folks would really be head scratching, and wondering about the platform.

SO - I'm proposing ditching the now late 2013.4.0.0 (I admit, I'm finding it hard to get excited by it!) and instead move right to putting out 2014.2.0.0 - aimed for mid-March to mid-April.

This release would have several big changes:
  • GHC 7.8
  • New shake based build for the Platform
  • Support for validation via package tests
  • Support for a "server variant" (no OpenGL or other GUI stuff if we had any)
  • Automated version info w/historical version matrix page
  • Several significant packages: I'd like to see Aeson at the very least, updated OpenGL stuff
I'd also propose changes for the Mac build (though this is obviously independent):
  • Built from GHC source, not dist. release. (guarantees consistent release)
  • Only 64bit (I know, controversial...)
Thoughts?


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Re: A modest proposal (re the Platform)

Dan Burton
I'm proposing ditching the now late 2013.4.0.0 (I admit, I'm finding it hard to get excited by it!) and instead move right to putting out 2014.2.0.0 - aimed for mid-March to mid-April.

+1 for fast-tracking GHC 7.8 into the next HP release.

(I have no experience or opinion on the Mac build stuff.)

-- Dan Burton

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Re: A modest proposal (re the Platform)

John Wiegley-3
>>>>> Dan Burton <[hidden email]> writes:

+1

John
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Re: A modest proposal (re the Platform)

Andres Löh-3
In reply to this post by Bob Ippolito
Hi.

I can understand the motivation of this proposal, but I'm slightly worried:

(1) I haven't really followed the discussion, but it was my
understanding that the currently released platform requires manual
patching on MacOS X, whereas the new one wouldn't? If so, would it not
be wise to release as soon as possible?

(2) Simply because GHC 7.8 is itself so long delayed and so full of
new features, I think it's realistic to assume that quite a few
library glitches will appear even after it's released. Also, GHC bugs
may be found only after formal release (despite all the hammering, the
use of GHC pre release isn't quite comparable with the amount of
testing it gets afterwards; IMHO, there might very well be need for a
GHC 7.8.2). I'm all for trying to get an HP based on GHC 7.8 out as
possible, but how soon would that actually happen, realistically?
Sooner than 6 months from now?

Cheers,
  Andres
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HP Server Release (was: A modest proposal (re the Platform))

Jonathon Delgado
In reply to this post by Mark Lentczner-2
As someone who frequently installs Haskell on servers, I'm interested in what you have in mind. My install process basically consists of 3 steps:

1) Install GHC from bindist
2) Delete all the documentation (except licenses), and all the stuff that's only needed for profiling, dynamic linking, and GHCi;
3) Install caball-install

I'm not interested in any other pre-installed packages, because cabal-install will download and install what's needed when it needs it. The basic idea of HP - a pre-selected set of libraries to base development on - is only meaningful for developer workstations, not the servers that they deploy their software to. As for making it easier to install a working Haskell system, there's a separate proposal to include cabal-install with the bindist.
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Re: HP Server Release

Herbert Valerio Riedel
Hi,

On 2014-01-20 at 10:03:57 +0100, harry wrote:
> As someone who frequently installs Haskell on servers, I'm interested in what
> you have in mind. My install process basically consists of 3 steps:
>
> 1) Install GHC from bindist
> 2) Delete all the documentation (except licenses), and all the stuff that's
> only needed for profiling, dynamic linking, and GHCi;
> 3) Install caball-install

...that's exactly -- except that I don't bother for 2) unless I have
space-constraints -- exactly how I proceed for server installs as
well...

> I'm not interested in any other pre-installed packages, because
> cabal-install will download and install what's needed when it needs it. The
> basic idea of HP - a pre-selected set of libraries to base development on -
> is only meaningful for developer workstations, not the servers that they
> deploy their software to.

btw, if one really wants to use the HP-blessed versions of certain
packages, one can instruct `cabal-install` via longish `--constraints`
argument[1], so no need to distribute a binary build of those libs.
 

Cheers,
  hvr

 [1]: https://github.com/hvr/multi-ghc-travis#haskell-platform-configurations
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Re: A modest proposal (re the Platform)

Milan Straka
In reply to this post by Mark Lentczner-2
Hi all,

> -----Original message-----
> From: Mark Lentczner <[hidden email]>
> Sent: 19 Jan 2014, 15:14
>
> Looks like GHC 7.8 is pretty near release.
>
> SO - I'm proposing ditching the now late 2013.4.0.0 (I admit, I'm finding
> it hard to get excited by it!) and instead move right to putting out
> 2014.2.0.0 - aimed for mid-March to mid-April.

+1.

Cheers,
Milan
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Re: HP Server Release

Jonathon Delgado
In reply to this post by Herbert Valerio Riedel
Herbert Valerio Riedel wrote
...that's exactly -- except that I don't bother for 2) unless I have
space-constraints -- exactly how I proceed for server installs as
well...
Space constraints are common these cloudy days. Take a look at the Heroku build packs for example.