Finding the contents of haskell platform?

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Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Magnus Therning
I know there's a .cabal file for the latest version of HP somewhere,
but I can't coerce Google into finding me a link that actually works.
Furthermore, the following page:

http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/contents.html

does list all the contents, but to my big surprise it doesn't link to
the specific versions of the packages for HP, instead it links to the
latest version found on Hackage.

Would someone with the power to make changes on the HP pages *please*
make it as easy as possible to find the *exact* specification of what
HP contains?  Please, pretty please with sugar on top.

No, a changelog entry
(http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/changelog.html) is not very
helpful (why the HP front page links to it I can't understand).

Going via the Haskell wiki
(http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_Platform#What.27s_in_the_platform)
to find a link to the .cabal
(http://code.haskell.org/haskell-platform/haskell-platform.cabal) is
not that user friendly.  It's even worse that the latter link doesn't
seem to work at all at the moment.

(The short irritated tone in this email accurately shows my
desperation with the situation: I thought I would be able to find this
information with only 5 minutes to spare before my next meeting.)

/M

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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Don Stewart-2
magnus:

> I know there's a .cabal file for the latest version of HP somewhere,
> but I can't coerce Google into finding me a link that actually works.
> Furthermore, the following page:
>
> http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/contents.html
>
> does list all the contents, but to my big surprise it doesn't link to
> the specific versions of the packages for HP, instead it links to the
> latest version found on Hackage.
>
> Would someone with the power to make changes on the HP pages *please*
> make it as easy as possible to find the *exact* specification of what
> HP contains?  Please, pretty please with sugar on top.
>
> No, a changelog entry
> (http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/changelog.html) is not very
> helpful (why the HP front page links to it I can't understand).
>
> Going via the Haskell wiki
> (http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_Platform#What.27s_in_the_platform)
> to find a link to the .cabal
> (http://code.haskell.org/haskell-platform/haskell-platform.cabal) is
> not that user friendly.  It's even worse that the latter link doesn't
> seem to work at all at the moment.
>
> (The short irritated tone in this email accurately shows my
> desperation with the situation: I thought I would be able to find this
> information with only 5 minutes to spare before my next meeting.)
>

Currently, the versions are specified in the .cabal file.
A script is used to generate the changelog page (diffcabal, iirc).

I'll generate a spec page from the .cabal file this week sometime.

-- Don

P.S. better sent to the haskell-platform@ list

   
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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Magnus Therning
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 14:47, Don Stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:

> magnus:
>> I know there's a .cabal file for the latest version of HP somewhere,
>> but I can't coerce Google into finding me a link that actually works.
>> Furthermore, the following page:
>>
>> http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/contents.html
>>
>> does list all the contents, but to my big surprise it doesn't link to
>> the specific versions of the packages for HP, instead it links to the
>> latest version found on Hackage.
>>
>> Would someone with the power to make changes on the HP pages *please*
>> make it as easy as possible to find the *exact* specification of what
>> HP contains?  Please, pretty please with sugar on top.
>>
>> No, a changelog entry
>> (http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/changelog.html) is not very
>> helpful (why the HP front page links to it I can't understand).
>>
>> Going via the Haskell wiki
>> (http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_Platform#What.27s_in_the_platform)
>> to find a link to the .cabal
>> (http://code.haskell.org/haskell-platform/haskell-platform.cabal) is
>> not that user friendly.  It's even worse that the latter link doesn't
>> seem to work at all at the moment.
>>
>> (The short irritated tone in this email accurately shows my
>> desperation with the situation: I thought I would be able to find this
>> information with only 5 minutes to spare before my next meeting.)
>>
>
> Currently, the versions are specified in the .cabal file.
> A script is used to generate the changelog page (diffcabal, iirc).
>
> I'll generate a spec page from the .cabal file this week sometime.

Ah, excellent.  Sorry for the rather rant-y email before.  I've now
been to the meeting and managed to calm down a bit :-)

> P.S. better sent to the haskell-platform@ list

Yes, of course.  I'm now trying to fix that by cross-posting, let's
hope I won't get too many angry emails about that ;-)

/M

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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Don Stewart-2
In reply to this post by Don Stewart-2
dons:

> magnus:
> > I know there's a .cabal file for the latest version of HP somewhere,
> > but I can't coerce Google into finding me a link that actually works.
> > Furthermore, the following page:
> >
> > http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/contents.html
> >
> > does list all the contents, but to my big surprise it doesn't link to
> > the specific versions of the packages for HP, instead it links to the
> > latest version found on Hackage.
> >
>
> I'll generate a spec page from the .cabal file this week sometime.
>

The changelog now lists all the versions:

    http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/changelog.html
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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Andrew Coppin
On 05/11/2010 02:59 PM, Don Stewart wrote:
>
> The changelog now lists all the versions:
>
>      http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/changelog.html

This is quite optimal.

It would still be nice if one could easily answer the question "which HP
release was the one that contained process-1.0.1.1", but this is a step
in the right direction.

Would it be hard to replace "->" with a real Unicode arrow character?

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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Stephen Tetley-2
On 5 November 2010 20:08, Andrew Coppin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Would it be hard to replace "->" with a real Unicode arrow character?
>

It should be quite easy - whether a given font has an arrow readily
available is a different matter. It might be be simpler to drop into
the Symbol font (should be present for all broswers) and use
arrowright - code 0o256.
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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Nick Bowler-3
On 2010-11-05 21:05 +0000, Stephen Tetley wrote:
> On 5 November 2010 20:08, Andrew Coppin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Would it be hard to replace "->" with a real Unicode arrow character?
>
> It should be quite easy - whether a given font has an arrow readily
> available is a different matter. It might be be simpler to drop into
> the Symbol font (should be present for all broswers) and use
> arrowright - code 0o256.

Except that the "Symbol" font family is not available in all browsers.

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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Stephen Tetley-2
On 5 November 2010 21:31, Nick Bowler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Except that the "Symbol" font family is not available in all browsers.

Ah ha - indeed you are right and the puritans at W3C and Mozilla.org
seem to have dug their heels in.

Unfortunately arrows don't appear to be in either the Standard Latin
Character Set or the Expert Character Set for fonts, so whilst they
are clearly present in Unicode (U+2192 for right arrow seemingly)
there's still no guarantee they are present in any given font.
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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Andrew Coppin
In reply to this post by Stephen Tetley-2
On 05/11/2010 09:05 PM, Stephen Tetley wrote:
> On 5 November 2010 20:08, Andrew Coppin<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Would it be hard to replace "->" with a real Unicode arrow character?
>>
> It should be quite easy - whether a given font has an arrow readily
> available is a different matter.

I can't remember the last time I saw a browser that couldn't do this.
There /are/ symbols that don't work reliably, but the basic arrow
symbols seem to be pretty well supported.

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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Stephen Tetley-2
On 6 November 2010 09:52, Andrew Coppin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I can't remember the last time I saw a browser that couldn't do this. There
> /are/ symbols that don't work reliably, but the basic arrow symbols seem to
> be pretty well supported.

Okay I'll shift my position a bit...

Arrows are likely present in a "modern" "system" font. Outside the
Symbol font, they aren't a standard symbol in PostScript and the font
standards are based on PostScript - OpenType being the latest though
it has less PostScript than its predecessors. But fonts are still
quite a different beast to Unicode. So fonts are completely free not
to define arrows or most other symbols, however it seems that standard
system fonts e.g Arial, Times New Roman on Windows define them.
There's no guarantee they will be present in the standard system fonts
on old systems or in non-system fonts that define whichever symbols
the font designer feels necessary.

Modern browsers might add in arrow from a different font if it is not
present in the one chosen by the web page author - I suspect this is
happening on this page where the arrow "looks wrong" typographically:

http://conal.net/blog/posts/adding-numbers/
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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Alexander Solla-2

On Nov 6, 2010, at 3:56 AM, Stephen Tetley wrote:

> Modern browsers might add in arrow from a different font if it is not
> present in the one chosen by the web page author - I suspect this is
> happening on this page where the arrow "looks wrong" typographically:

I don't think that's what's going on.  Notice that the font used in  
that page is fixed width.  The arrow looks wrong because it has to fit  
in a fixed width space.  Fixed width arrows all look stubby, even if  
they are styled like the rest of the font.

Very few programming fonts have arrows or other symbols.  When I  
played around with UnicodeSyntax, I tried lots of different fonts.  
The only one I found that is halfway readable is GNU Unifont (at  
unifoundry.com)
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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Stephen Tetley-2
On 6 November 2010 18:01, Alexander Solla <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Nov 6, 2010, at 3:56 AM, Stephen Tetley wrote:
>
>> Modern browsers might add in arrow from a different font if it is not
>> present in the one chosen by the web page author - I suspect this is
>> happening on this page where the arrow "looks wrong" typographically:
>
> I don't think that's what's going on.  Notice that the font used in that
> page is fixed width.  The arrow looks wrong because it has to fit in a fixed
> width space.  Fixed width arrows all look stubby, even if they are styled
> like the rest of the font.
>

Yes - I expect I'm wrong on that, although I'd say the arrow looks
wrong because its too low.

I thought I read that Firefox does a font swap if it can't find a
glyph, but thinking about it myself I can't see that this would make
sense - Firefox would have to know an awful lot about the OSes fonts
to know if they have "missing" glyphs.
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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

John Pybus-2
Stephen Tetley wrote:
>
>
> I thought I read that Firefox does a font swap if it can't find a
> glyph, but thinking about it myself I can't see that this would make
> sense - Firefox would have to know an awful lot about the OSes fonts
> to know if they have "missing" glyphs.

You're pretty much right, Firefox does read the font metrics information
of _all_ fonts on the system at startup [1].  It chooses substitute
glyphs based on which fonts have the required glyph and matching metrics.

This font substitution can cause odd looking results if you  use odd
characters in a run of ascii text[2], but seems to do a reasonable job
with displaying mathematical symbols.

John


[1] Yes, this can cause significant slowdown for users with many fonts:
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600713>.  I think Chrome
just relies on a set fallback font with known wide unicode coverage.

[2] See what can happen if you cut and paste fancy content into the web
browser, but only have ligatures defined in some unusual font:
<http://www.undermyhat.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/ScreenShot562.png>

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Re: Finding the contents of haskell platform?

Stephen Tetley-2
Hello John

Thanks for the information - after I posted that message I read the
CSS section of Yannis Haralambous's "Fonts & Encodings" (_the_ book of
all things font) and it has this text:

"In other words, the browser will check not only the existence of a
given font but also the existence of each glyph in each font, one by
one, and will choose for each glyph the font that contains it."

So Browsers do know an awful lot about the installed fonts.

Best wishes

Stephen
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