German names for kinds and sorts

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German names for kinds and sorts

Robert Clausecker
Hi all!

I want to write my Facharbeit (kind of an essay you have to write on a
specific topic you can choose yourself for highschool graduation) about
the type-system of Haskell. It is required in our school to write this
document in German language.

Most time, it is not really difficult to find an appropriate term for
concepts of Haskell, like types (Typen) or type classes (Typklassen).
But I really don't know how to call kinds and sorts in German. Any
ideas?

Yours, Robert Clausecker


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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

Matthias Reisner
Am 12.11.2011 17:05 schrieb Robert Clausecker:

> Hi all!
>
> I want to write my Facharbeit (kind of an essay you have to write on a
> specific topic you can choose yourself for highschool graduation) about
> the type-system of Haskell. It is required in our school to write this
> document in German language.
>
> Most time, it is not really difficult to find an appropriate term for
> concepts of Haskell, like types (Typen) or type classes (Typklassen).
> But I really don't know how to call kinds and sorts in German. Any
> ideas?
>
> Yours, Robert Clausecker

Hi,

there was a thread on the translation of the word "kind" [1] some years
ago, have a look at this. I'm not exactly sure what a sort is so I can't
help with that. Maybe just "Sorte"?

Best wishes,
Matthias


[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/haskell@.../msg16752.html

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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

Daniel Schoepe-2
In reply to this post by Robert Clausecker
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:05:51 +0100, Robert Clausecker <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Most time, it is not really difficult to find an appropriate term for
> concepts of Haskell, like types (Typen) or type classes (Typklassen).
> But I really don't know how to call kinds and sorts in German. Any
> ideas?

I'd go with "Arten" and "Sorten" respectively.

Cheers,
Daniel

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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

MigMit
In reply to this post by Robert Clausecker
In Russian we have the same problem: there is no such thing as a usual translation of the word "kind". Seems to me that russian Haskell programmers mostly use an English word adapted to the Russian language: "кайнды" (kaindy). So, I think, you can do the same thing in German, just name them "Kinden" or "Kinder".

Отправлено с iPhone

Nov 12, 2011, в 20:05, Robert Clausecker <[hidden email]> написал(а):

> Hi all!
>
> I want to write my Facharbeit (kind of an essay you have to write on a
> specific topic you can choose yourself for highschool graduation) about
> the type-system of Haskell. It is required in our school to write this
> document in German language.
>
> Most time, it is not really difficult to find an appropriate term for
> concepts of Haskell, like types (Typen) or type classes (Typklassen).
> But I really don't know how to call kinds and sorts in German. Any
> ideas?
>
> Yours, Robert Clausecker
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

Robert Clausecker
That's what I tried to do first, but the problem is that "kind" appears
to have the meaning of "child" in German, so using this word as-is in
German text may cause some confusion among readers not familiar to the
English jargon.



Am Sonntag, den 13.11.2011, 00:28 +0400 schrieb MigMit:

> In Russian we have the same problem: there is no such thing as a usual translation of the word "kind". Seems to me that russian Haskell programmers mostly use an English word adapted to the Russian language: "кайнды" (kaindy). So, I think, you can do the same thing in German, just name them "Kinden" or "Kinder".
>
> Отправлено с iPhone
>
> Nov 12, 2011, в 20:05, Robert Clausecker <[hidden email]> написал(а):
>
> > Hi all!
> >
> > I want to write my Facharbeit (kind of an essay you have to write on a
> > specific topic you can choose yourself for highschool graduation) about
> > the type-system of Haskell. It is required in our school to write this
> > document in German language.
> >
> > Most time, it is not really difficult to find an appropriate term for
> > concepts of Haskell, like types (Typen) or type classes (Typklassen).
> > But I really don't know how to call kinds and sorts in German. Any
> > ideas?
> >
> > Yours, Robert Clausecker
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe




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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

Paul Johnson-2
In reply to this post by Robert Clausecker
An odd suggestion I know, but take a look at some bibles.  The King James Bible uses the word "kind" to describe different animals in Genesis 1:

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

At least some other English translations use the same word (I'm not a bible scholar, so I can't give you a detailed list).  But you might try finding out what German bibles use in that passage.


On 11/12/2011 04:05 PM, Robert Clausecker wrote:
Hi all!

I want to write my Facharbeit (kind of an essay you have to write on a
specific topic you can choose yourself for highschool graduation) about
the type-system of Haskell. It is required in our school to write this
document in German language.

Most time, it is not really difficult to find an appropriate term for
concepts of Haskell, like types (Typen) or type classes (Typklassen).
But I really don't know how to call kinds and sorts in German. Any
ideas?

Yours, Robert Clausecker


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[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe



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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

Sjoerd Visscher-2
What a nice idea! Here's a list:


The German word is indeed Art, the French word is espèce.

Sjoerd

On Nov 13, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:

An odd suggestion I know, but take a look at some bibles.  The King James Bible uses the word "kind" to describe different animals in Genesis 1:

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

At least some other English translations use the same word (I'm not a bible scholar, so I can't give you a detailed list).  But you might try finding out what German bibles use in that passage.


On 11/12/2011 04:05 PM, Robert Clausecker wrote:
Hi all!

I want to write my Facharbeit (kind of an essay you have to write on a
specific topic you can choose yourself for highschool graduation) about
the type-system of Haskell. It is required in our school to write this
document in German language.

Most time, it is not really difficult to find an appropriate term for
concepts of Haskell, like types (Typen) or type classes (Typklassen).
But I really don't know how to call kinds and sorts in German. Any
ideas?

Yours, Robert Clausecker


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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

Jerzy Karczmarczuk
In reply to this post by Paul Johnson-2
First of all, my German is Worse than Cakes of my Grandmother...

But I spent a big part of my life in France, and I witness a similar
bedlam for years, especially because of the fact that English is a
particular version of Norman French spoiled by the consumption of hot
potatoes, and the modern, scientific French is English distorted by the
abuse of the low quality wine, unable to dissolve the cholesterol  of
the local cheese.

Seriously, the French queue is tail in English (or vice-versa), and the
English queue is file in French which in English means fichier in
French. And you want to propagate the disease with terms like "Art",
etc.?? If "kind" is "espèce", then "species" is what? (And avoid to
translate "payer en espèces"...)

Russians are good because of their linguistical désinvolture (no good
English translation), they just adapted foreign words with the utmost
cavalière attitude (as the English say, French don't). But Polish
invented their own terminology, which means that when you publish a
scientific book in Poland, you quarrel with the reviewers for weeks,
believe me!


So, even more seriously, I propose to use more often Latin and Greek.

Genus, genera, for  ... ehm... je n'en sais rien, perhaps kind?
("Genesis" comes from it).
Oh, no... This exists already in English, and is "genre" in French.
Gattung in German pour varier.

There have been attempts to use the word "phylum", phyla. Anybody knows
what happened to it?
(Help! In French it is "embranchement", which is horrible).

Well, in biology we have "règne" (kingdom) (oder Reich, warum nicht?).
Regnum.

Sort?? Wonderful! This is a sort of word, whose semantic family cannot
be really sorted. Especially with "sortir" in French. BTW, "to sort" in
English is "trier" in French; "tri", "trie", "tree". Try everything...

==

When some years ago we asked our students to write some reports in
English, I thought I would spend some months in the Arkham Asylum, with
Mr. E. Nygma, and others...

Best regards.

Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Caen, Normandy, France
(William the Conqueror started this mess here...).





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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

loupgaroublond@gmail.com
I think you hit on something there in between the humorous rant.
German has a propensity to choose latin words and germanize them with
spelling and prononciation changes. Even if English speaking
Haskellers pick 'kind' to refer to just that, Phylus in German might
be a better translation. Now Dutch and other Germanic languages might
have more issues, since they like to translate these things into
native words where possible. Anyone know the Icelandic translation for
Type and Kind?

-Yaakov

(Disclaimer, not a native German, Dutch or Icelandic speaker.)

2011/11/13 Jerzy Karczmarczuk <[hidden email]>:

> First of all, my German is Worse than Cakes of my Grandmother...
>
> But I spent a big part of my life in France, and I witness a similar bedlam
> for years, especially because of the fact that English is a particular
> version of Norman French spoiled by the consumption of hot potatoes, and the
> modern, scientific French is English distorted by the abuse of the low
> quality wine, unable to dissolve the cholesterol  of the local cheese.
>
> Seriously, the French queue is tail in English (or vice-versa), and the
> English queue is file in French which in English means fichier in French.
> And you want to propagate the disease with terms like "Art", etc.?? If
> "kind" is "espèce", then "species" is what? (And avoid to translate "payer
> en espèces"...)
>
> Russians are good because of their linguistical désinvolture (no good
> English translation), they just adapted foreign words with the utmost
> cavalière attitude (as the English say, French don't). But Polish invented
> their own terminology, which means that when you publish a scientific book
> in Poland, you quarrel with the reviewers for weeks, believe me!
>
>
> So, even more seriously, I propose to use more often Latin and Greek.
>
> Genus, genera, for  ... ehm... je n'en sais rien, perhaps kind? ("Genesis"
> comes from it).
> Oh, no... This exists already in English, and is "genre" in French. Gattung
> in German pour varier.
>
> There have been attempts to use the word "phylum", phyla. Anybody knows what
> happened to it?
> (Help! In French it is "embranchement", which is horrible).
>
> Well, in biology we have "règne" (kingdom) (oder Reich, warum nicht?).
> Regnum.
>
> Sort?? Wonderful! This is a sort of word, whose semantic family cannot be
> really sorted. Especially with "sortir" in French. BTW, "to sort" in English
> is "trier" in French; "tri", "trie", "tree". Try everything...
>
> ==
>
> When some years ago we asked our students to write some reports in English,
> I thought I would spend some months in the Arkham Asylum, with Mr. E. Nygma,
> and others...
>
> Best regards.
>
> Jerzy Karczmarczuk
> Caen, Normandy, France
> (William the Conqueror started this mess here...).
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>

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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

Gabríel A. Pétursson
Type ("data type") translates to "Gagnatag".

Singular:
  * Nominative: gagnatag
  * Accusative: gagnatag
  * Dative: gagnatagi
  * Genitive: gagnatags

Plural:
  * Nominative: gagnatög
  * Accusative: gagnatög
  * Dative: gagnatögum
  * Genitive: gagnataga

You can drop the gagna- prefix and get the translation for just "type".

I am unsure of an equivalent word for Kind, sorry.

On 13.11.2011 23:37, Yaakov Nemoy wrote:
> Anyone know the Icelandic translation for Type and Kind?
>
> -Yaakov


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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

Ertugrul Söylemez
In reply to this post by Daniel Schoepe-2
Daniel Schoepe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Most time, it is not really difficult to find an appropriate term
> > for concepts of Haskell, like types (Typen) or type classes
> > (Typklassen).  But I really don't know how to call kinds and sorts
> > in German. Any ideas?
>
> I'd go with "Arten" and "Sorten" respectively.

I agree.  I find myself talking about "Typarten":  "Der Typ Maybe ist
von der Art * -> *."

Often it's also sufficient to differentiate between concrete types and
type constructors:  "Maybe ist ein Typenkonstruktor."


Greets,
Ertugrul


--
nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife >>= sex)
http://ertes.de/

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Re: German names for kinds and sorts

John Lato-2
In reply to this post by Robert Clausecker
> From: Jerzy Karczmarczuk <[hidden email]>
>
> So, even more seriously, I propose to use more often Latin and Greek.

Jerzy's arguments make a lot of sense to me, but why not use an
index-based notation?

T0 = Type
T1 = Kind
T2 = Sort
etc.

this seems easier to me than an arbitrary hierarchy, particularly as
you go higher up the structure.

John Lato

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