Haskell for children? Any experience?

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
29 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Haskell for children? Any experience?

Chris Smith-31
So I find myself being asked to plan Haskell programming classes for one
hour, once a week, from September through May this coming school year.
The students will be ages 11 to 13.  I'm wondering if anyone has
experience in anything similar that they might share with me.  I'm
trying to decide if this is feasible, or it I should try to do something
different.

To be honest, as much as I love Haskell, I tried to push the idea of
learning a different language; perhaps Python.  So far, the kids will
have none of it!  This year, I've been teaching a once-a-week
exploratory mathematics sort of thing, and we've made heavy use of
GHCi... and they now insist on learning Haskell.

(By the way, GHCi is truly amazing for exploratory mathematics.  We
really ought to promote the idea of Haskell for elementary / junior-high
level math teachers!  It's so easy to just try stuff; and there are so
many patterns you can just discover and then say "Huh, why do you think
that happens?  Can you write it down precisely? ...")

--
Chris Smith


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Stephen Tetley-2
On 27 January 2011 15:04, Chris Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
[SNIP]
> I'm wondering if anyone has
> experience in anything similar that they might share with me.  I'm
> trying to decide if this is feasible, or it I should try to do something
> different.

Hi Chris

John Peterson had some nice work using Haskore and Fran for elementary
teaching on the old Haskell.org website. Google's cache says the old
URL was here but its now vanished:

www.haskell.org/edsl/campy/campy-2003-music.ppt

I've copies of the slides somewhere but the landing page had extra
notes and examples. I can send you the slides off-list if you want
them.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

aditya siram-2
In reply to this post by Chris Smith-31
Ye gods! A B & D [1] language for kids? At least give them a fighting
chance [2] at becoming future developers.

Haskell's immutability is good for mathematics but doing anything else
takes a great deal of up-front patience and perseverance, two very
rare qualities in that demographic if my own childhood is any
indication.

BTW I want to be wrong so if you do succeed with this I will feast on
crow with gusto.

-deech

[1] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BondageAndDisciplineLanguage
[2] http://scratch.mit.edu/

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Chris Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So I find myself being asked to plan Haskell programming classes for one
> hour, once a week, from September through May this coming school year.
> The students will be ages 11 to 13.  I'm wondering if anyone has
> experience in anything similar that they might share with me.  I'm
> trying to decide if this is feasible, or it I should try to do something
> different.
>
> To be honest, as much as I love Haskell, I tried to push the idea of
> learning a different language; perhaps Python.  So far, the kids will
> have none of it!  This year, I've been teaching a once-a-week
> exploratory mathematics sort of thing, and we've made heavy use of
> GHCi... and they now insist on learning Haskell.
>
> (By the way, GHCi is truly amazing for exploratory mathematics.  We
> really ought to promote the idea of Haskell for elementary / junior-high
> level math teachers!  It's so easy to just try stuff; and there are so
> many patterns you can just discover and then say "Huh, why do you think
> that happens?  Can you write it down precisely? ...")
>
> --
> Chris Smith
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

klondike-4
In reply to this post by Chris Smith-31
El 27/01/11 16:04, Chris Smith escribió:
> To be honest, as much as I love Haskell, I tried to push the idea of
> learning a different language; perhaps Python.  So far, the kids will
> have none of it!  This year, I've been teaching a once-a-week
> exploratory mathematics sort of thing, and we've made heavy use of
> GHCi... and they now insist on learning Haskell.
Having had programming classes by then would have meant more happiness
and not touching my BASIC calculator :'-)

Two days ago I was referred to this project:
http://wizbang.sourceforge.net/WizBang/WizBang.html The language is
quite imperative but to me looks as a child friendly programming
language due to its low complexity.


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

signature.asc (270 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Vo Minh Thu
In reply to this post by aditya siram-2
Hi,

You said "Haskell's immutability is good for mathematics but doing anything else
takes a great deal of up-front patience and perseverance[...]"

I guess it is true for imperative programmers... but are you saying
that about kids that just know how to use a calculator?

Cheers,
Thu

2011/1/27 aditya siram <[hidden email]>:

> Ye gods! A B & D [1] language for kids? At least give them a fighting
> chance [2] at becoming future developers.
>
> Haskell's immutability is good for mathematics but doing anything else
> takes a great deal of up-front patience and perseverance, two very
> rare qualities in that demographic if my own childhood is any
> indication.
>
> BTW I want to be wrong so if you do succeed with this I will feast on
> crow with gusto.
>
> -deech
>
> [1] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BondageAndDisciplineLanguage
> [2] http://scratch.mit.edu/
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Chris Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> So I find myself being asked to plan Haskell programming classes for one
>> hour, once a week, from September through May this coming school year.
>> The students will be ages 11 to 13.  I'm wondering if anyone has
>> experience in anything similar that they might share with me.  I'm
>> trying to decide if this is feasible, or it I should try to do something
>> different.
>>
>> To be honest, as much as I love Haskell, I tried to push the idea of
>> learning a different language; perhaps Python.  So far, the kids will
>> have none of it!  This year, I've been teaching a once-a-week
>> exploratory mathematics sort of thing, and we've made heavy use of
>> GHCi... and they now insist on learning Haskell.
>>
>> (By the way, GHCi is truly amazing for exploratory mathematics.  We
>> really ought to promote the idea of Haskell for elementary / junior-high
>> level math teachers!  It's so easy to just try stuff; and there are so
>> many patterns you can just discover and then say "Huh, why do you think
>> that happens?  Can you write it down precisely? ...")
>>
>> --
>> Chris Smith
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Dominique Devriese-2
Hi,

I'm also curious about this. Is a pure programming style like
Haskell's less or more natural than an imperative mutable-state based
one to kids without experience. I intuitively expect that for kids
with a high-school background in mathematics would find the first more
natural, but this is not based on any teaching experience. Does anyone
have real-life experience with this or know of any related literature?

Thanks
Dominique

2011/1/27 Vo Minh Thu <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> You said "Haskell's immutability is good for mathematics but doing anything else
> takes a great deal of up-front patience and perseverance[...]"
>
> I guess it is true for imperative programmers... but are you saying
> that about kids that just know how to use a calculator?
>
> Cheers,
> Thu
>
> 2011/1/27 aditya siram <[hidden email]>:
>> Ye gods! A B & D [1] language for kids? At least give them a fighting
>> chance [2] at becoming future developers.
>>
>> Haskell's immutability is good for mathematics but doing anything else
>> takes a great deal of up-front patience and perseverance, two very
>> rare qualities in that demographic if my own childhood is any
>> indication.
>>
>> BTW I want to be wrong so if you do succeed with this I will feast on
>> crow with gusto.
>>
>> -deech
>>
>> [1] http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BondageAndDisciplineLanguage
>> [2] http://scratch.mit.edu/
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Chris Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> So I find myself being asked to plan Haskell programming classes for one
>>> hour, once a week, from September through May this coming school year.
>>> The students will be ages 11 to 13.  I'm wondering if anyone has
>>> experience in anything similar that they might share with me.  I'm
>>> trying to decide if this is feasible, or it I should try to do something
>>> different.
>>>
>>> To be honest, as much as I love Haskell, I tried to push the idea of
>>> learning a different language; perhaps Python.  So far, the kids will
>>> have none of it!  This year, I've been teaching a once-a-week
>>> exploratory mathematics sort of thing, and we've made heavy use of
>>> GHCi... and they now insist on learning Haskell.
>>>
>>> (By the way, GHCi is truly amazing for exploratory mathematics.  We
>>> really ought to promote the idea of Haskell for elementary / junior-high
>>> level math teachers!  It's so easy to just try stuff; and there are so
>>> many patterns you can just discover and then say "Huh, why do you think
>>> that happens?  Can you write it down precisely? ...")
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Smith
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Chris Smith-31
In reply to this post by Stephen Tetley-2
On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 15:26 +0000, Stephen Tetley wrote:
> John Peterson had some nice work using Haskore and Fran for elementary
> teaching on the old Haskell.org website. Google's cache says the old
> URL was here but its now vanished:
>
> www.haskell.org/edsl/campy/campy-2003-music.ppt

That sounds great!  If you do have an existing copy of the slides, I'd
like to see them.  Especially the idea of using music for programming
with a nice embedded DSL / combinator library would be amazing.

--
Chris


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

aditya siram-2
Hi Chris,
I was a little negative in my last message so maybe I can contribute
something positive. If you're looking for a musical way to teach
Haskell I did a Haskell music hackathon [1]  about a year and a half
ago. The idea was to use Haskell [2] to play music through a
Supercollider music server [3] .

Supercollider itself just generates sound so I had to code up support
for scales, arpeggios and chords including the ability to generate
arpeggios and chords from some user-defined scale.

One of the fun applications of this support was to grab 2 yrs worth of
DOW closing numbers from Yahoo Financial and set it to music. The user
was able to select a scale, key, octave and instrument and the code
would autogenerate notes within that scale and with a chordal
accompaniment. It was right around the time of the American
presidential election and the economy being such a big issue, it was
fun listening to the music start off high but get lower and lower over
time.

You are welcome to play around with it and if you run into any
difficulties, let me know.

-deech

[1]  https://patch-tag.com/r/deech2k/SuperCollider-Haskell/snapshot/current/content/pretty/HaskoreHackfest.hs
[2] http://hackage.haskell.org/package/haskore-supercollider
[3] http://supercollider.sourceforge.net//

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Chris Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 15:26 +0000, Stephen Tetley wrote:
>> John Peterson had some nice work using Haskore and Fran for elementary
>> teaching on the old Haskell.org website. Google's cache says the old
>> URL was here but its now vanished:
>>
>> www.haskell.org/edsl/campy/campy-2003-music.ppt
>
> That sounds great!  If you do have an existing copy of the slides, I'd
> like to see them.  Especially the idea of using music for programming
> with a nice embedded DSL / combinator library would be amazing.
>
> --
> Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Henk-Jan van Tuyl
In reply to this post by Stephen Tetley-2
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 16:26:01 +0100, Stephen Tetley  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 27 January 2011 15:04, Chris Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [SNIP]
>> I'm wondering if anyone has
>> experience in anything similar that they might share with me.  I'm
>> trying to decide if this is feasible, or it I should try to do something
>> different.
>
> Hi Chris
>
> John Peterson had some nice work using Haskore and Fran for elementary
> teaching on the old Haskell.org website. Google's cache says the old
> URL was here but its now vanished:
>
> www.haskell.org/edsl/campy/campy-2003-music.ppt
>
> I've copies of the slides somewhere but the landing page had extra
> notes and examples. I can send you the slides off-list if you want
> them.

The old server is still up till the end of this month (four days to go!);  
the URL of the landing page is:
   http://oldhaskell.cs.yale.edu/edsl/

Regards,
Henk-Jan van Tuyl


--
http://Van.Tuyl.eu/
http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/tourdemonad.html
--

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Niklas Broberg
In reply to this post by aditya siram-2
> Ye gods! A B & D [1] language for kids? At least give them a fighting
> chance [2] at becoming future developers.
>
> Haskell's immutability is good for mathematics but doing anything else
> takes a great deal of up-front patience and perseverance, two very
> rare qualities in that demographic if my own childhood is any
> indication.

Begone, disbeliever! And listen to the gospel of Matthias Felleisen
preaching the truth: http://vimeo.com/6631514 (presentation from ICFP
2009)

The paper is "A Functional I/O System - or, Fun for Freshman Kids":
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/scheme/pubs/icfp09-fffk.pdf

Alas, it's about Scheme, but I am sure it would be both interesting
and useful regardless.

Cheers,

/Niklas

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Chris Smith-31
In reply to this post by klondike-4
On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 16:40 +0100, klondike wrote:
> Two days ago I was referred to this project:
> http://wizbang.sourceforge.net/WizBang/WizBang.html The language is
> quite imperative but to me looks as a child friendly programming
> language due to its low complexity.

Thanks for this and other related suggestions.  Really, though, I'm not
looking to find a new language; and almost surely not one like WizBang.
I do want to keep things light, interesting, and fun... a DSL inside of
Haskell might be interesting.  But the absolute last message I want to
send is that I don't think they are ready for a real language.  Not
after they've already played with Haskell and GHCi for mathematics!

--
Chris Smith



_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Chris Smith-31
In reply to this post by aditya siram-2
On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 11:44 -0600, aditya siram wrote:
> I was a little negative in my last message so maybe I can contribute
> something positive. If you're looking for a musical way to teach
> Haskell I did a Haskell music hackathon [1]  about a year and a half
> ago. The idea was to use Haskell [2] to play music through a
> Supercollider music server [3] .

Well, it seems like music is a good possibility for part of it.  We're
talking about a weekly class for a year, so it'll go beyond that.  I'm
sure that whatever I do, I won't be able to prevent it ending with the
programming of video games!

I did look at Haskore, and there's a lot to like about it; but also a
lot to worry about.  The documentation talks about it only being able to
do synthesis on Linux (but that documentation seems to be old; I wonder
if this is still true); it definitely suffers from "wall of modules"
syndrome -- there's no obvious top-level module with a simplified
interface that I can see... no starting point or anything beyond type
signatures, a lot of abstraction, and the apparent existence of many
different types all called named with a capital T.  Maybe, though, I can
wrap it in something more simple and usable.

In the end, though, I probably don't want to spend an entire school year
talking about sound synthesis; so things would ultimately move on.  So
this is a small part of what I'm looking at.

--
Chris Smith



_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Chris Smith-31
In reply to this post by aditya siram-2
On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 09:28 -0600, aditya siram wrote:
> Ye gods! A B & D [1] language for kids?

I do share those concerns.  Like I said in the original post, my initial
reaction was to push for something like Python.  But the kids are very
clear; if I'm at all willing, they want to learn Haskell!  And honestly,
I'd like to try it too, *if* I can do my due diligence research, and pay
attention to others who might have tried and learned some lessons along
the way!

> At least give them a fighting chance [2] at becoming future developers.
> [2] http://scratch.mit.edu/

Thanks for that suggestion; unfortunately, much like the WizBang
suggestion, Scratch is going to come across as if, for some reason,
after happily using GHCi for math, I now don't trust them with a real
programming language.  I can guarantee you they won't be interested in
programming by dragging around brightly colored things that look like
puzzle pieces on the screen; and I can't imagine keeping it up for the
whole year even if they were interested.

--
Chris


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

John Peterson-2
In reply to this post by Chris Smith-31
Hi all,

I've had good luck with Haskore as a way to bring kids into functional programming.  It's nice in that you can get a lot done in just 2 or 3 hours.  Lately I've switched over to a 3D game engine using FRP to make the programming simple.  I've been running a summer camp (https://www.western.edu/academics/computerscience/computer-camp.html) using this software with a lot of success.  Unfortunately I had to abandon Haskell to get to our game engine, so I've rebuilt FRP on top of Python.  The programming style is functional but it would be nice to have a real type system.  We're in the process of getting a public release together this term.

I really need to get all my web content moved off Yale - I'll be happy to share the software / papers with anyone that's interested.  My slides and papers should re

   John Peterson
    [hidden email]



_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Stephen Tetley-2
In reply to this post by Chris Smith-31
On 28 January 2011 01:23, Chris Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
[TRUNC]

> I did look at Haskore, and there's a lot to like about it; but also a
> lot to worry about.  The documentation talks about it only being able to
> do synthesis on Linux (but that documentation seems to be old; I wonder
> if this is still true); it definitely suffers from "wall of modules"
> syndrome ...

Hi Chris

Note that Haskore-vintage and Henning's Haskore are now quite
different. From the date I'd assume John Peterson's slides would have
been using "vintage" Haskore (at the time it wouldn't have been called
vintage, of course).

Vintage Haskore generates MIDI files only, Paul Hudak has a large
tutorial for vintage Haskore, its (probably) too long for kids but you
could certainly crib a lot from it. Paul's also re-doing the "School
of Expression" book to concentrate more on music - I think he's making
drafts available.

If you have Haskore specific queries, the Haskell-art list is better
than Cafe as Paul is a regular commentator there.

Best wishes

Stephen

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Chris Smith-31
On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 08:22 +0000, Stephen Tetley wrote:
> Note that Haskore-vintage and Henning's Haskore are now quite
> different. From the date I'd assume John Peterson's slides would have
> been using "vintage" Haskore (at the time it wouldn't have been called
> vintage, of course).

Awesome!  Thank you so much... I unregistered haskore and installed
haskore-vintage, and it all works with the Music.hs file from John
Petersen's stuff someone linked to from the old haskell.org!  The
documentation certainly seems much simpler, too.  Understood about only
writing MIDI files; I'll probably modify the play function to save the
file and run timidity, which I can install where it's needed.

--
Chris


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Mark Lentczner
In reply to this post by Chris Smith-31
I think this is a wonderful idea! Fer land sakes, I remember when kids were taught BASIC or Fortran! I think Haskell will be a great improvement.

Now, how'z'bout web sites? Kids love web sites, yes? I've been working on a small project, in quiet mode, to develop an "all in the web browser" development environment and tutorial on programming in Haskell with web programming as the main focus.

So far the development environment part is up and running: you start like this:
        > barley start playground
        ...project created....
        Running on http://localhost:8080/
Now you browse to that URL and you have a Haskell development environment in the web page. Edit Haskell modules, and click save... bang! compiled with either in-line error messages, or if it runs, with a web page preview output. It's a lot of fun, actually.

Here's the catch: The project isn't even at 0.1 yet: The above works, but there are some missing features from the development environment, and, most importantly, there is only the barest wisp of a tutorial yet. BUT - you aren't starting until next year, so help us write the tutorial!

The project is, for now, here:
        https://github.com/mtnviewmark/barley
But will be moving to code.google.com in a few weeks.

        - Mark



Mark Lentczner
http://www.ozonehouse.com/mark/
[hidden email]




_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Jason
In reply to this post by Chris Smith-31
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:26 PM, Chris Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
Like I said in the original post, my initial
reaction was to push for something like Python.  But the kids are very
clear; if I'm at all willing, they want to learn Haskell!  

IMO the most important facet of education is motivation, which it sounds like the kids already have in spades. Therefore, your primary job is to feed and protect their enthusiasm while making it easier for them to learn what they want (and guiding them in the right direction). 

It sounds like whatever you were doing with GHCi was working, so I would build off of that and expand it to programs that require writing to disk, interact with one another (networking), and such. I remember when I was a kid, I wanted to be able to write things to disk so badly (I have no idea why), but to me that was what 'real' programming was all about. 

I agree that sound, animations, etc... are very sexy and if done right can increase their enthusiasm many fold, but it also has the ability to turn them off from the simple elegance of what first hooked their interest. So start simple and be attentive to what THEY enjoy and you will give them the most valuable programming knowledge of all: passion.

Best of luck and keep us up to date on your blog/reddit posts!
-- 
Jason M. Knight
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Henning Thielemann-4
In reply to this post by Chris Smith-31
Chris Smith schrieb:

> On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 11:44 -0600, aditya siram wrote:
>> I was a little negative in my last message so maybe I can contribute
>> something positive. If you're looking for a musical way to teach
>> Haskell I did a Haskell music hackathon [1]  about a year and a half
>> ago. The idea was to use Haskell [2] to play music through a
>> Supercollider music server [3] .
>
> Well, it seems like music is a good possibility for part of it.  We're
> talking about a weekly class for a year, so it'll go beyond that.  I'm
> sure that whatever I do, I won't be able to prevent it ending with the
> programming of video games!
>
> I did look at Haskore, and there's a lot to like about it; but also a
> lot to worry about.  The documentation talks about it only being able to
> do synthesis on Linux (but that documentation seems to be old; I wonder
> if this is still true); it definitely suffers from "wall of modules"
> syndrome -- there's no obvious top-level module with a simplified
> interface that I can see... no starting point or anything beyond type
> signatures, a lot of abstraction, and the apparent existence of many
> different types all called named with a capital T.  Maybe, though, I can
> wrap it in something more simple and usable.

Sorry for not-up-to-date documentation. I think that looking at the
various examples is most helpful for a start. I can't provide a link to
code.haskell.org since it is down. But there is an Example directory.

And maybe:
   http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskore


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Haskell for children? Any experience?

Chris Smith-31
In reply to this post by Jason

Jason, thanks for the comments.  Unfortunately, I probably won't do blogs about it.  Hate to say it, but anyone who has read much outside of /r/haskell will surely agree it's irresponsible to write about children on Reddit.  And things I write on my blog are likely to end up on Reddit.

I'll find somewhere to do an experience report, though, assuming this happens.


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
[hidden email]
http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
12