Language shootout (reloaded)

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Language shootout (reloaded)

Donald Bruce Stewart
Just so we can feel that we're doing the right things :)

On the great language shootout, as of last night, we're:

  * Ranked overall number 1, by a good margin:
  * Ranked number 1 on lines of code
  * Ranked number 2 on speed.

 http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all

Thanks to everyone who's contributed to the entries over the last few
weeks, on the wiki, and on this list.

Cheers,
   Don

P.S. I remember having a discussion on #haskell 2 weeks ago where we all
agreed that Haskell placing #1 was pretty much impossible. Did we have
an inferiority complex?
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Re: Language shootout (reloaded)

Stefan Holdermans
Don Stewart wrote:

> P.S. I remember having a discussion on #haskell 2 weeks ago where  
> we all
> agreed that Haskell placing #1 was pretty much impossible. Did we have
> an inferiority complex?

Still---and, please, forgive me for this---I feel that us being #1  
now tells us more about the Haskell community than it tells us about  
Haskell.

Regards,

   Stefan
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Re: Language shootout (reloaded)

Cale Gibbard
On 10/02/06, Stefan Holdermans <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don Stewart wrote:
>
> > P.S. I remember having a discussion on #haskell 2 weeks ago where
> > we all
> > agreed that Haskell placing #1 was pretty much impossible. Did we have
> > an inferiority complex?
>
> Still---and, please, forgive me for this---I feel that us being #1
> now tells us more about the Haskell community than it tells us about
> Haskell.
>

The Haskell community is an important part of Haskell. :)

 - Cale
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RE: Language shootout (reloaded)

Simon Peyton Jones
In reply to this post by Donald Bruce Stewart
Congratulations, guys!  An amazing, and (maybe it should have been!) to
me surprising, achievement.

Simon

| -----Original Message-----
| From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
| Donald Bruce Stewart
| Sent: 10 February 2006 01:35
| To: [hidden email]
| Subject: [Haskell-cafe] Language shootout (reloaded)
|
| Just so we can feel that we're doing the right things :)
|
| On the great language shootout, as of last night, we're:
|
|   * Ranked overall number 1, by a good margin:
|   * Ranked number 1 on lines of code
|   * Ranked number 2 on speed.
|
|  http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all
|
| Thanks to everyone who's contributed to the entries over the last few
| weeks, on the wiki, and on this list.
|
| Cheers,
|    Don
|
| P.S. I remember having a discussion on #haskell 2 weeks ago where we
all
| agreed that Haskell placing #1 was pretty much impossible. Did we have
| an inferiority complex?
| _______________________________________________
| Haskell-Cafe mailing list
| [hidden email]
| http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
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Re: Language shootout (reloaded)

Immanuel Litzroth
In reply to this post by Stefan Holdermans
"Stefan Holdermans" <[hidden email]> writes:

>
> Still---and, please, forgive me for this---I feel that us being #1
> now tells us more about the Haskell community than it tells us about
> Haskell.
>
How to optimize Haskell code:
1) enter it as a test in the great language shootout.
2) wait a few days.
3) download optimized code.
Immanuel

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Re[2]: Language shootout (reloaded)

Bulat Ziganshin
Hello Immanuel,

Friday, February 10, 2006, 12:42:41 PM, you wrote:

>> Still---and, please, forgive me for this---I feel that us being #1
>> now tells us more about the Haskell community than it tells us about
>> Haskell.
>>
IL> How to optimize Haskell code:
IL> 1) enter it as a test in the great language shootout.
IL> 2) wait a few days.
IL> 3) download optimized code.

someone can develop optimizing compiler implementing this algorithm :)))


--
Best regards,
 Bulat                            mailto:[hidden email]



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Re: Language shootout (reloaded)

Simon Marlow-5
Bulat Ziganshin wrote:

> Hello Immanuel,
>
> Friday, February 10, 2006, 12:42:41 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>>>Still---and, please, forgive me for this---I feel that us being #1
>>>now tells us more about the Haskell community than it tells us about
>>>Haskell.
>>>
>
> IL> How to optimize Haskell code:
> IL> 1) enter it as a test in the great language shootout.
> IL> 2) wait a few days.
> IL> 3) download optimized code.
>
> someone can develop optimizing compiler implementing this algorithm :)))

This is similar to an old algorithm:

   1) Submit your program to the GHC team for inclusion in nofib
   2) Wait for the next GHC release

this algorithm has been little used of late, though.

I should really incorporate all the shootout programs into nofib, in fact.

Cheers,
        Simon
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Re: Haskell not usally faster

Chris Kuklewicz-2
In reply to this post by Stefan Holdermans
Stefan Holdermans wrote:

> Don Stewart wrote:
>
>> P.S. I remember having a discussion on #haskell 2 weeks ago where we all
>> agreed that Haskell placing #1 was pretty much impossible. Did we have
>> an inferiority complex?
>
> Still---and, please, forgive me for this---I feel that us being #1 now
> tells us more about the Haskell community than it tells us about Haskell.
>
> Regards,
>
>   Stefan

Point taken.  But I think it *has* revealed a lot about Haskell:

(1) "The language of Haskell" :  It proved that Haskell's syntax allows for a
good lead in the lines of code benchmark.  If you ignore the 5 benchmarks
without a Perl entry, then Haskell still wins and Perl is second.  More concise
than Perl is something that most people would consider to be non-trivial.

(2) "The implementation of GHC 6.4.1": It proved the GHC runtime system is
incredibly efficient at concurrency.  It proved GHC can beat GCC in some cases.
 It proved that the memory consumption of lazy+strict Haskell is competitive
with explicitly managed memory in c++ (g++) and strict but garbage collected OCaml.

(3) "The libraries of GHC 6.4.1": It has emphasized which bits of GHC has to be
worked around, where the provided library is simply too inefficient.  This is
usually not new information, but it does provide an (more) objective benchmark.

And now for some perspective on speed:

Comparing Haskell to OCaml, Haskell is almost always slower.  For CPU time
Haskell wins on 5, OCaml wins on 13 benchmarks (OCaml is missing 1 program).
But for two of those 5, the thread benchmarks, Haskell is 107x and 129x faster.
This amazingly large margin skews the ranking.  Aside from threading, OCaml wins
on 13 vs 3 for Haskell.  Ignoring the these two threaded benchmarks, OCaml is
3rd behind C and D, while Haskell is 8th behind SML MLton.

So is Haskell the fastest?  No, not unless you need to do an amazing amount
threaded processing.

Actually, comparing Haskell to C shows C/gcc faster on 10 to 6 with Haskell/GHC
faster (C is missing 3 programs).

--
Chris
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Re: Haskell not usally faster

Ketil Malde-2
Chris Kuklewicz <[hidden email]> writes:

> Comparing Haskell to OCaml, Haskell is almost always slower.

...but generally not by much.

And for another perspective on speed: Haskell loses tremendously in
the knucleotide benchmark.  As I mentioned previously, even TCL beats
us by a margin of two, and it seems to be the comparatiely
worst-performing benchmark regardless of language I compare to.

Current GHC score is 4.6% ahead of GCC, weigting knucleotide to 0
gives us a 13% lead.

-k
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants

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Re: Language shootout (reloaded)

Henning Thielemann
In reply to this post by Cale Gibbard

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006, Cale Gibbard wrote:

> On 10/02/06, Stefan Holdermans <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Don Stewart wrote:
> >
> > > P.S. I remember having a discussion on #haskell 2 weeks ago where
> > > we all
> > > agreed that Haskell placing #1 was pretty much impossible. Did we have
> > > an inferiority complex?
> >
> > Still---and, please, forgive me for this---I feel that us being #1
> > now tells us more about the Haskell community than it tells us about
> > Haskell.
>
> The Haskell community is an important part of Haskell. :)

Is it part of the Haskell 98 report? :-]

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