New in haskell for old-timers?

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New in haskell for old-timers?

Mats Rauhala
I ended up discussing in university with the person next to me about
Haskell. He's an old-timer who's even been to conferences, but it's a
long time since he's looked at Haskell. He asked me to write "what's new
in Haskell", but I'm not too experienced myself.

I didn't realize asking how long it's been for him, but he mentioned
about new fronts in optimizing compilers and specifically mentioned a
compiler that could compile to legible C. I've been following Haskell
only for a couple of years, so my intuition tells me that he means
`-fvia-c`, and I mentioned to him that it's about to be deprecated and
replaced with the llvm back-end. I also mentioned hackage, but he hadn't
heard of it.

He mentioned that he'd like to use Haskell for his master's thesis, but
we got a interrupted when he said what it was about. Formal something or
other.

I trust you fellow Haskellers have better understanding of the time
frame, and can think of something interesting new features, libraries,
communities etc. that's since been emerged. I ask you to give me
something interesting to give him and reinstate his interest.

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Mats Rauhala
MasseR

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Re: New in haskell for old-timers?

Brandon Allbery
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:33, Mats Rauhala <[hidden email]> wrote:
I didn't realize asking how long it's been for him, but he mentioned
about new fronts in optimizing compilers and specifically mentioned a
compiler that could compile to legible C. I've been following Haskell 
only for a couple of years, so my intuition tells me that he means
`-fvia-c`, and I mentioned to him that it's about to be deprecated and
replaced with the llvm back-end. I also mentioned hackage, but he hadn't
heard of it.

The legible C thing is probably jhc ( http://repetae.net/computer/jhc/ ).  It's GHC's *illegible* registerized C that is being phased out; the slightly-more-legible ANSI C mode used for porting is staying, though.

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brandon s allbery                                      [hidden email]
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Re: New in haskell for old-timers?

Mats Rauhala
On 11:57 Fri 30 Mar     , Brandon Allbery wrote:
>
> The legible C thing is probably jhc ( http://repetae.net/computer/jhc/ ).
>  It's GHC's *illegible* registerized C that is being phased out; the
> slightly-more-legible ANSI C mode used for porting is staying, though.
>

Oh wow, I thought jhc was discontinued, but just checked the
repositories and mailing lists and it's alive and well. No idea where I
got the idea that it was discontinued. Going a little bit on tangent
here, but if I understood correctly, jhc is meant to do more
optimization. How does this compare to for example ghc?


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Re: New in haskell for old-timers?

Jason Dagit-3
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Mats Rauhala <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11:57 Fri 30 Mar     , Brandon Allbery wrote:
>>
>> The legible C thing is probably jhc ( http://repetae.net/computer/jhc/ ).
>>  It's GHC's *illegible* registerized C that is being phased out; the
>> slightly-more-legible ANSI C mode used for porting is staying, though.
>>
>
> Oh wow, I thought jhc was discontinued, but just checked the
> repositories and mailing lists and it's alive and well. No idea where I
> got the idea that it was discontinued. Going a little bit on tangent
> here, but if I understood correctly, jhc is meant to do more
> optimization. How does this compare to for example ghc?

Both are optimizing compilers, but jhc is intended (by the author) to
try different things that ghc. If ghc does it one way, jhc will try to
explore other aspects of the design space.  The last time this came
up, I think someone said that jhc uses GRIN for optimizations:
http://www.cafepress.com/haskell_books.12273129

GHC tries to optimize by rewriting and also by conventional means.
Both try to specialize away uses of type classes, but as I understand
it jhc is far more aggressive, or maybe even has a different run-time
representation?

Anyway, back to the original topic, some of the big items that I would
mention to your friend include:
  * cabal/cabal-dev
  * hackage (and some of the better known libraries,
Data.Vector/Data.Text/Data.ByteString)
  * Type Families
  * Haskell 2010 is the current rev of the language standard

Jason

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Re: New in haskell for old-timers?

Henk-Jan van Tuyl
On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:45:40 +0200, Jason Dagit <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Anyway, back to the original topic, some of the big items that I would
> mention to your friend include:
>   * cabal/cabal-dev
>   * hackage (and some of the better known libraries,
> Data.Vector/Data.Text/Data.ByteString)
>   * Type Families
>   * Haskell 2010 is the current rev of the language standard
>

Don't forget:
  - Haddock
  - Cabal (the standard, not the program)
  - Darcs
  - Hoogle
  - Hayoo
  - Better documentation in the base libraries
  - The Haskell Platform
  - Better performance of compiled Haskell programs
  - Improved Windows support
  - The ongoing Haskell Prime process for updating the Haskell language
    (See http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_prime )
  - IDEs: EclipseFP and Leksah
  - The popular xmonad
    ( http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Xmonad )
  - The debugger in GHCi
  - The popularity of Haskell on Reddit, Stack Overflow, IRC channels
  - The new site http://www.haskellers.com/
  - More books,
    see http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/tourdemonad.html
  - An enormous growth of e-mail on the mailing lists
  - An enormous growth of the number of packages
  - QuickCheck (this one is not very new)
  - The Industrial Haskell Group
  - The haskell.org committee (was formed a year ago to formalise the
    previously ad-hoc arrangements around managing the haskell.org
    infrastructure and money, see
      http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell.org_committee )
  - New concepts for I/O: enumerators/iteratees, conduits
  - Many new extensions to the language, in GHC

There is probably even more.

For changes in the Haskell language, see
   http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_2010

Regards,
Henk-Jan van Tuyl


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Re: New in haskell for old-timers?

John Meacham
In reply to this post by Mats Rauhala
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Mats Rauhala <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Oh wow, I thought jhc was discontinued, but just checked the
> repositories and mailing lists and it's alive and well. No idea where I
> got the idea that it was discontinued. Going a little bit on tangent
> here, but if I understood correctly, jhc is meant to do more
> optimization. How does this compare to for example ghc?

I occasionally take some time off for other projects, but jhc is alive and well.
 The C produced is quite legible and even better, portable. Everything
from the Nintendo DS to the iPhone has been a target.

I am always welcoming active developers. No better way to kick me into
jhc mode than submitting some patches. :)

0.8.1 is almost due to be put out, it will be the first to be 100%
haskell 2010 (and haskell 98) compliant and has a lot of other neat
features over 0.8.0.

   John

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Re: New in haskell for old-timers?

paul r-2
John> 0.8.1 is almost due to be put out, it will be the first to be 100%
John> haskell 2010 (and haskell 98) compliant and has a lot of other neat
John> features over 0.8.0.

That's great ! I can't wait to put it into my toolbox. Haskell compilers
are all pieces of art, bringing beauty to our daily work. Thanks a lot
to everyone involved in them.


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  Paul

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