Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

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Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Carter Schonwald
Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences, that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source friendly. Or even converging on hostile? 

1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run

2) very low concurrency on oss builds.  

3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch customer support contact to adjust. 

I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now, though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may suit different folks. 

There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms, though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?  Def seen it discussed though. 

Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)


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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

ulidtko
Speaking of CI systems and OpenSource, I'd like to mention CircleCI as
well: https://circleci.com/open-source/
(No affiliation, just a happy user.)

Did have slightly negative experience with TravisCI recently, can
confirm the sentiment.

On Mon, Nov 16 2020 at 12:02:52 PM -0600, Carter Schonwald
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
> that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
> friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
>
> 1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
>
> 2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
>
> 3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch
> customer support contact to adjust.
>
> I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
> though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
> suit different folks.
>
> There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
> caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
> others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
> though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?  
> Def seen it discussed though.
>
> https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
>
> Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
> the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
> kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
>


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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Mihai Maruseac
As a user of all of the following, GitHub Actions > Circle CI > Travis.

You get much more control on Github Actions, you can cache stuff, you
can control when it runs.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 10:17 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Speaking of CI systems and OpenSource, I'd like to mention CircleCI as
> well: https://circleci.com/open-source/
> (No affiliation, just a happy user.)
>
> Did have slightly negative experience with TravisCI recently, can
> confirm the sentiment.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16 2020 at 12:02:52 PM -0600, Carter Schonwald
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
> > that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
> > friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
> >
> > 1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
> >
> > 2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
> >
> > 3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch
> > customer support contact to adjust.
> >
> > I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
> > though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
> > suit different folks.
> >
> > There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
> > caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
> > others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
> > though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?
> > Def seen it discussed though.
> >
> > https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
> >
> > Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
> > the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
> > kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.



--
Mihai Maruseac (MM)
"If you can't solve a problem, then there's an easier problem you can
solve: find it." -- George Polya
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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Carter Schonwald
this mirrors my current understanding of all the choices myself, and it certainly helps that GH *explicitly* puts the OSS/free tier on equal or  footing with paid customers. 
which  absolutely makes sense given their various corporate structures (GH actions is a path to folks perhaps wanting to use azure services more organically? )

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:39 PM Mihai Maruseac <[hidden email]> wrote:
As a user of all of the following, GitHub Actions > Circle CI > Travis.

You get much more control on Github Actions, you can cache stuff, you
can control when it runs.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 10:17 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Speaking of CI systems and OpenSource, I'd like to mention CircleCI as
> well: https://circleci.com/open-source/
> (No affiliation, just a happy user.)
>
> Did have slightly negative experience with TravisCI recently, can
> confirm the sentiment.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16 2020 at 12:02:52 PM -0600, Carter Schonwald
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
> > that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
> > friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
> >
> > 1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
> >
> > 2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
> >
> > 3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch
> > customer support contact to adjust.
> >
> > I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
> > though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
> > suit different folks.
> >
> > There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
> > caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
> > others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
> > though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?
> > Def seen it discussed though.
> >
> > https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
> >
> > Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
> > the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
> > kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.



--
Mihai Maruseac (MM)
"If you can't solve a problem, then there's an easier problem you can
solve: find it." -- George Polya

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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Joachim Durchholz
Careful about Github.
It's currently OSS-friendly, but MS sometimes changes strategies
abruptly, so they might move away from OSS, and much faster than Travis.
Plus the more of Github's features you use, the harder it will be to
migrate away from them when that happens (harder than with Travis).

Maybe Gitlab is a viable alternative. At least the licensing is easier -
the server code is MIT.
They do dual licensing (Community and Enterprise Edition), so they could
become "too commercial" over time, but if/when that happens, there's
always the MIT-licensed Community Edition that can be taken over by
volunteers for development. (Which in turn makes going full commercial
less attractive for them, so it's a bit of a self-inhibiting prophecy.)

(Disclaimer: I have no stake in the issue either way.)

Am 17.11.20 um 01:16 schrieb Carter Schonwald:

> this mirrors my current understanding of all the choices myself, and it
> certainly helps that GH *explicitly* puts the OSS/free tier on equal or  
> footing with paid customers.
> which  absolutely makes sense given their various corporate structures
> (GH actions is a path to folks perhaps wanting to use azure services
> more organically? )
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:39 PM Mihai Maruseac <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     As a user of all of the following, GitHub Actions > Circle CI > Travis.
>
>     You get much more control on Github Actions, you can cache stuff, you
>     can control when it runs.
>
>     On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 10:17 AM <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>      >
>      > Speaking of CI systems and OpenSource, I'd like to mention
>     CircleCI as
>      > well: https://circleci.com/open-source/
>      > (No affiliation, just a happy user.)
>      >
>      > Did have slightly negative experience with TravisCI recently, can
>      > confirm the sentiment.
>      >
>      > On Mon, Nov 16 2020 at 12:02:52 PM -0600, Carter Schonwald
>      > <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>     wrote:
>      > > Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
>      > > that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
>      > > friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
>      > >
>      > > 1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
>      > >
>      > > 2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
>      > >
>      > > 3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high
>     touch
>      > > customer support contact to adjust.
>      > >
>      > > I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
>      > > though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
>      > > suit different folks.
>      > >
>      > > There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
>      > > caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
>      > > others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
>      > > though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?
>      > > Def seen it discussed though.
>      > >
>      > > https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
>      > >
>      > > Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
>      > > the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
>      > > kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
>      > >
>      >
>      >
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>      > To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
>      > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>      > Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>
>
>
>     --
>     Mihai Maruseac (MM)
>     "If you can't solve a problem, then there's an easier problem you can
>     solve: find it." -- George Polya
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>

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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Bryan Richter-2
I have to agree with Joachim. Everybody is good to OSS until it comes
time to tighten the belt. That time has just come earlier to TravisCI
than it has to Microsoft.

None of these organizations are beholden to the people who use their
services for free. Inversely, all of them ARE lawfully beholden to
their owners and their paying customers.

The viable long term strategies are (1) do it yourself [the blessing
and curse of OSS], or (2) become a paying customer!

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 8:19 AM Joachim Durchholz <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Careful about Github.
> It's currently OSS-friendly, but MS sometimes changes strategies
> abruptly, so they might move away from OSS, and much faster than Travis.
> Plus the more of Github's features you use, the harder it will be to
> migrate away from them when that happens (harder than with Travis).
>
> Maybe Gitlab is a viable alternative. At least the licensing is easier -
> the server code is MIT.
> They do dual licensing (Community and Enterprise Edition), so they could
> become "too commercial" over time, but if/when that happens, there's
> always the MIT-licensed Community Edition that can be taken over by
> volunteers for development. (Which in turn makes going full commercial
> less attractive for them, so it's a bit of a self-inhibiting prophecy.)
>
> (Disclaimer: I have no stake in the issue either way.)
>
> Am 17.11.20 um 01:16 schrieb Carter Schonwald:
> > this mirrors my current understanding of all the choices myself, and it
> > certainly helps that GH *explicitly* puts the OSS/free tier on equal or
> > footing with paid customers.
> > which  absolutely makes sense given their various corporate structures
> > (GH actions is a path to folks perhaps wanting to use azure services
> > more organically? )
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:39 PM Mihai Maruseac <[hidden email]
> > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >
> >     As a user of all of the following, GitHub Actions > Circle CI > Travis.
> >
> >     You get much more control on Github Actions, you can cache stuff, you
> >     can control when it runs.
> >
> >     On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 10:17 AM <[hidden email]
> >     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> >      >
> >      > Speaking of CI systems and OpenSource, I'd like to mention
> >     CircleCI as
> >      > well: https://circleci.com/open-source/
> >      > (No affiliation, just a happy user.)
> >      >
> >      > Did have slightly negative experience with TravisCI recently, can
> >      > confirm the sentiment.
> >      >
> >      > On Mon, Nov 16 2020 at 12:02:52 PM -0600, Carter Schonwald
> >      > <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> >     wrote:
> >      > > Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
> >      > > that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
> >      > > friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
> >      > >
> >      > > 1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
> >      > >
> >      > > 2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
> >      > >
> >      > > 3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high
> >     touch
> >      > > customer support contact to adjust.
> >      > >
> >      > > I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
> >      > > though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
> >      > > suit different folks.
> >      > >
> >      > > There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
> >      > > caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
> >      > > others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
> >      > > though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?
> >      > > Def seen it discussed though.
> >      > >
> >      > > https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
> >      > >
> >      > > Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
> >      > > the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
> >      > > kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
> >      > >
> >      >
> >      >
> >      > _______________________________________________
> >      > Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> >      > To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> >      > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> >      > Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
> >
> >
> >
> >     --
> >     Mihai Maruseac (MM)
> >     "If you can't solve a problem, then there's an easier problem you can
> >     solve: find it." -- George Polya
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> > To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> > Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Christopher Allen
GitLab CI has been really nice in my work and personal projects. Easy to add your own worker to the free site too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 17, 2020, at 00:56, Bryan Richter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have to agree with Joachim. Everybody is good to OSS until it comes
> time to tighten the belt. That time has just come earlier to TravisCI
> than it has to Microsoft.
>
> None of these organizations are beholden to the people who use their
> services for free. Inversely, all of them ARE lawfully beholden to
> their owners and their paying customers.
>
> The viable long term strategies are (1) do it yourself [the blessing
> and curse of OSS], or (2) become a paying customer!
>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 8:19 AM Joachim Durchholz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Careful about Github.
>> It's currently OSS-friendly, but MS sometimes changes strategies
>> abruptly, so they might move away from OSS, and much faster than Travis.
>> Plus the more of Github's features you use, the harder it will be to
>> migrate away from them when that happens (harder than with Travis).
>>
>> Maybe Gitlab is a viable alternative. At least the licensing is easier -
>> the server code is MIT.
>> They do dual licensing (Community and Enterprise Edition), so they could
>> become "too commercial" over time, but if/when that happens, there's
>> always the MIT-licensed Community Edition that can be taken over by
>> volunteers for development. (Which in turn makes going full commercial
>> less attractive for them, so it's a bit of a self-inhibiting prophecy.)
>>
>> (Disclaimer: I have no stake in the issue either way.)
>>
>>> Am 17.11.20 um 01:16 schrieb Carter Schonwald:
>>> this mirrors my current understanding of all the choices myself, and it
>>> certainly helps that GH *explicitly* puts the OSS/free tier on equal or
>>> footing with paid customers.
>>> which  absolutely makes sense given their various corporate structures
>>> (GH actions is a path to folks perhaps wanting to use azure services
>>> more organically? )
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 5:39 PM Mihai Maruseac <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    As a user of all of the following, GitHub Actions > Circle CI > Travis.
>>>
>>>    You get much more control on Github Actions, you can cache stuff, you
>>>    can control when it runs.
>>>
>>>    On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 10:17 AM <[hidden email]
>>>    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Speaking of CI systems and OpenSource, I'd like to mention
>>>    CircleCI as
>>>> well: https://circleci.com/open-source/
>>>> (No affiliation, just a happy user.)
>>>>
>>>> Did have slightly negative experience with TravisCI recently, can
>>>> confirm the sentiment.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 16 2020 at 12:02:52 PM -0600, Carter Schonwald
>>>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>    wrote:
>>>>> Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
>>>>> that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
>>>>> friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high
>>>    touch
>>>>> customer support contact to adjust.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
>>>>> though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
>>>>> suit different folks.
>>>>>
>>>>> There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
>>>>> caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
>>>>> others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
>>>>> though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?
>>>>> Def seen it discussed though.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
>>>>>
>>>>> Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
>>>>> the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
>>>>> kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>>>> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
>>>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>>> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    --
>>>    Mihai Maruseac (MM)
>>>    "If you can't solve a problem, then there's an easier problem you can
>>>    solve: find it." -- George Polya
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>>> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
>>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>>> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Arian van Putten
In reply to this post by Carter Schonwald
Thanks for the example Carter.

I've been struggling with Servant's CI since the recent Travis changes as CI now somtimes takes up to multiple hours to complete.

It would be awesome if somebody would volunteer adding a Github or Gitlab backend to haskell-ci; such that I do not have to re-invent the entire CI systems that is in place currently from scratch though.  Killer feature for us is the parsing of `Tested-With` in cabal files to adjust the build matrix; as e.g. not all our packages for on GHCJS for example.

However  your example doesn't look that complicated. I'm going to play around with it.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 7:04 PM Carter Schonwald <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences, that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source friendly. Or even converging on hostile? 

1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run

2) very low concurrency on oss builds.  

3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch customer support contact to adjust. 

I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now, though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may suit different folks. 

There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms, though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?  Def seen it discussed though. 

Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)

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--
Groetjes,

Arian

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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Joachim Durchholz
Am 18.11.20 um 19:23 schrieb Arian van Putten:
> It would be awesome if somebody would volunteer adding a Github or
> Gitlab backend to haskell-ci;

What would be needed?

> such that I do not have to re-invent the entire CI systems that is
> in place currently from scratch though Killer feature for us is the
> parsing of `Tested-With` in cabal files to adjust the build matrix;
> as e.g. not all our packages for on GHCJS for example.
I.e. volunteers would need to know (or learn) what's there currently.

Other question: What kind of hardware would be needed?
I.e. how much CPU/RAM to get the queues emptied quickly enough.

Regards,
Jo

(Disclaimer: I cannot volunteer due to lack of time, just trying to
contribute whatever tooling ops knowledge I happen to have.)
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Re: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Carter Schonwald
In reply to this post by Arian van Putten
I've gotten things to be even nice and working on windows finally! (including having the steps shared on on platforms in a single buildway :) ! )

plus figuring out how to sidestep a fun / terrible issue on windows , but now fixed for me :) 

https://github.com/cartazio/ralist/actions/runs/373071421/workflow  is the current one i have and attached is a copy that should be easy to adapt

enjoy!

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 12:23 PM Arian van Putten <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for the example Carter.

I've been struggling with Servant's CI since the recent Travis changes as CI now somtimes takes up to multiple hours to complete.

It would be awesome if somebody would volunteer adding a Github or Gitlab backend to haskell-ci; such that I do not have to re-invent the entire CI systems that is in place currently from scratch though.  Killer feature for us is the parsing of `Tested-With` in cabal files to adjust the build matrix; as e.g. not all our packages for on GHCJS for example.

However  your example doesn't look that complicated. I'm going to play around with it.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 7:04 PM Carter Schonwald <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences, that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source friendly. Or even converging on hostile? 

1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run

2) very low concurrency on oss builds.  

3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch customer support contact to adjust. 

I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now, though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may suit different folks. 

There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms, though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?  Def seen it discussed though. 

Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)

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--
Groetjes,

Arian

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heres a replacement CI template using gh actions: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Carter Schonwald
In reply to this post by Carter Schonwald

On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:02 PM Carter Schonwald <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences, that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source friendly. Or even converging on hostile? 

1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run

2) very low concurrency on oss builds.  

3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch customer support contact to adjust. 

I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now, though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may suit different folks. 

There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms, though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?  Def seen it discussed though. 

Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)


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Re: heres a replacement CI template using gh actions: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Joachim Durchholz
Not wanting to dishearten you, but Github *was* acquired by Microsoft,
and that company has changed policy more often than I have appendages to
count.
Which means that replacing a Travis workflow with a Github workflow
isn't improving anything, it's merely another station on the CI
caravan's route.

Gitlab *is* publishing large parts of their server-side code. Set up a
local test installation, make sure that CI automation runs there, then
migrate to Gitlab - that's the strategy I'd choose, YMMV.

Gitlab may become FOSS-unfriendly over time just like any other
commercial entity, but their barrier is significantly higher: The will
loser more users and faster if they try anything funny with their
policy, because then people will just run their own servers. Their
current policy is a bit of a "we promise to remain FOSS-friendly,
because, see? - we're locking ourselves in your corner" plot, and of
course me advertising this is exactly what they want to achieve :-)

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT affiliated with Gitlab in any way.
Or with any other commercial entity offering services to the open-source
community.

Regards,
Jo

Am 13.12.20 um 20:59 schrieb Carter Schonwald:

> https://github.com/cartazio/ralist/blob/495c3dcb3a8e16a693a97a415f731907549aa615/.github/workflows/hs-matrix.yml 
> is my current iteration
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:02 PM Carter Schonwald
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
>     that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
>     friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
>
>     1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
>
>     2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
>
>     3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch
>     customer support contact to adjust.
>
>     I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
>     though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
>     suit different folks.
>
>     There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
>     caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
>     others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
>     though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?  Def
>     seen it discussed though.
>
>     https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
>
>     Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
>     the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
>     kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>

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Re: heres a replacement CI template using gh actions: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Carter Schonwald
If you’re volunteering to do the legwork to have easy peasy ci setup for me, I graciously accept! 

Otherwise I don’t see how this critique is advancing a constructive dialogue. Your suggestions aren’t concretely actionable for me given finite time.  

If you choose to do some community organizing to advance this approach you’re advocating, I look forward to using it.  Else it’s just putting down something I’m sharing in the open in hopes it has use for other folks. 

Happy holidays!
-Carter 

On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 5:53 PM Joachim Durchholz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not wanting to dishearten you, but Github *was* acquired by Microsoft,
and that company has changed policy more often than I have appendages to
count.
Which means that replacing a Travis workflow with a Github workflow
isn't improving anything, it's merely another station on the CI
caravan's route.

Gitlab *is* publishing large parts of their server-side code. Set up a
local test installation, make sure that CI automation runs there, then
migrate to Gitlab - that's the strategy I'd choose, YMMV.

Gitlab may become FOSS-unfriendly over time just like any other
commercial entity, but their barrier is significantly higher: The will
loser more users and faster if they try anything funny with their
policy, because then people will just run their own servers. Their
current policy is a bit of a "we promise to remain FOSS-friendly,
because, see? - we're locking ourselves in your corner" plot, and of
course me advertising this is exactly what they want to achieve :-)

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT affiliated with Gitlab in any way.
Or with any other commercial entity offering services to the open-source
community.

Regards,
Jo

Am 13.12.20 um 20:59 schrieb Carter Schonwald:
> https://github.com/cartazio/ralist/blob/495c3dcb3a8e16a693a97a415f731907549aa615/.github/workflows/hs-matrix.yml 
> is my current iteration
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:02 PM Carter Schonwald
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
>     that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
>     friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
>
>     1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
>
>     2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
>
>     3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch
>     customer support contact to adjust.
>
>     I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
>     though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
>     suit different folks.
>
>     There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
>     caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
>     others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
>     though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?  Def
>     seen it discussed though.
>
>     https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
>
>     Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
>     the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
>     kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>

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Re: heres a replacement CI template using gh actions: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Joachim Durchholz
Am 14.12.20 um 00:00 schrieb Carter Schonwald:
> If you’re volunteering to do the legwork to have easy peasy ci setup for
> me, I graciously accept!

I have to politely decline.

> Otherwise I don’t see how this critique is advancing a constructive
> dialogue.

Somebody with enough time may decide to give Gitlab a spin that might
have been unaware.
So yes it is constructive. Just not in a direction that helps you - but
now you do have to accept hat people may pursue different strategies
than yours, do you?

 > Your suggestions aren’t concretely actionable for me given
> finite time.

Neither is your suggestion that I do the legwork.

> If you choose to do some community organizing to advance this approach
> you’re advocating, I look forward to using it.  Else it’s just putting
> down something I’m sharing in the open in hopes it has use for other folks.

Temporary solution or not, your work is certainly going to be better
than nothing at all!
So feel free to go ahead. (Well, you are free to do whatever you like
anyway, I have no say at all in what you do or what you consider best ;-) )

Regards,
Jo
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Re: heres a replacement CI template using gh actions: Psa : perhaps time for maintainers to start migrating off Travis ci

Christopher Allen
In reply to this post by Joachim Durchholz
I use GitLab CI when I have the option. The Docker integration is pretty helpful. If you're willing to deploy your own GitLab CI instance, you can use Docker-in-Docker to build and deploy Docker images into production.

I wrote a blog post explaining why I use and prefer GitLab CI: https://bitemyapp.com/blog/why-i-use-gitlab-ci/

I typically use the hosted CI (on Gitlab.com) and then when I need to speed up builds, I run CI workers on my own machines. Very pleasant.

It has a few minor limitations to do with how much control you have things in the YAML but it can be worked around if you need to. I've used GitLab CI on several production projects, some of them belonging to an employer. I also use it for my personal projects.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Chris Allen


On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 4:53 PM Joachim Durchholz <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not wanting to dishearten you, but Github *was* acquired by Microsoft,
and that company has changed policy more often than I have appendages to
count.
Which means that replacing a Travis workflow with a Github workflow
isn't improving anything, it's merely another station on the CI
caravan's route.

Gitlab *is* publishing large parts of their server-side code. Set up a
local test installation, make sure that CI automation runs there, then
migrate to Gitlab - that's the strategy I'd choose, YMMV.

Gitlab may become FOSS-unfriendly over time just like any other
commercial entity, but their barrier is significantly higher: The will
loser more users and faster if they try anything funny with their
policy, because then people will just run their own servers. Their
current policy is a bit of a "we promise to remain FOSS-friendly,
because, see? - we're locking ourselves in your corner" plot, and of
course me advertising this is exactly what they want to achieve :-)

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT affiliated with Gitlab in any way.
Or with any other commercial entity offering services to the open-source
community.

Regards,
Jo

Am 13.12.20 um 20:59 schrieb Carter Schonwald:
> https://github.com/cartazio/ralist/blob/495c3dcb3a8e16a693a97a415f731907549aa615/.github/workflows/hs-matrix.yml 
> is my current iteration
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 1:02 PM Carter Schonwald
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hey everyone: it looks like, from my perspective and experiences,
>     that Travis ci should perhaps now be viewed as not open source
>     friendly. Or even converging on hostile?
>
>     1) crazy long queue times/ latency for oss ci actions to run
>
>     2) very low concurrency on oss builds.
>
>     3) very low build build  minute caps for oss that require high touch
>     customer support contact to adjust.
>
>     I’ve started moving my own projects slowly to gh actions for now,
>     though there’s also gitlab ci , src hut and other options that may
>     suit different folks.
>
>     There’s definitely some ways to keep on having the clever cabal
>     caching we know and love that folks like the Haskell-ci folks and
>     others have hacked out for Travis be available on other platforms,
>     though I don’t think there’s consolidated docs for those yet ?  Def
>     seen it discussed though.
>
>     https://github.com/haskell-CI/haskell-ci/issues/411
>
>     Heres a url to my dupe ticket where I share an example naive use of
>     the setup Haskell gh actions Config, definitely not perfect. But
>     kinda amazing to have Mac and Linux and windows ci all in one ! :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>

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--
Chris Allen
Currently working on http://haskellbook.com

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