Supported Windows versions (was: Re: unix package)

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Supported Windows versions (was: Re: unix package)

Esa Ilari Vuokko
On 6/30/07, Ian Lynagh <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 30, 2007 at 08:01:09PM +0300, Esa Ilari Vuokko wrote:
> >
> > Indeed.  Also, as Win32 maintainer, I am unsure how far we are supporting
> > old Windowses.  When I tentavily asked some people about it, they thought
> > we should continue to support old Windows versions.
>
> Our (GHC) plan is not to support Win 9x (and Me?) from 6.8 onwards, as
> we don't have machines on which test it or debug problems. I don't think
> the installers that we make now install a GHC that works on Win 9x, but
> I could be wrong.

Thanks for info!

This also might mean that GHC could be made to exclusively use IO Completion
Ports in Windows instead of hacks now in place.

Maybe this is a good place to ask for opinions.  Anyone have any or know of
need to support old Windows versions?  I am also curious if someone still
writes software for pre-Windows 2000 NTs, as there's some nice API functions
in Windows 2000.

Thanks,
Esa
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Re: Supported Windows versions (was: Re: unix package)

Neil Mitchell
Hi Esa,

> Maybe this is a good place to ask for opinions.  Anyone have any or know of
> need to support old Windows versions?  I am also curious if someone still
> writes software for pre-Windows 2000 NTs, as there's some nice API functions
> in Windows 2000.

"Effective July 11, 2006, Windows 98, Windows 98 Second Edition, and
Windows Me (and their related components) will transition to a
non-supported status. After this date, Microsoft will no longer
provide any incident support options or security updates. Microsoft is
not offering a custom support agreement for these products."

I think its perfectly reasonable to assume that people only run
Windows 2000 and Windows XP. Anyone who is running anything older is
either a) not connected to the internet, or b) full of spyware. Either
way, running brand new GHC applications is unlikely to be top of their
list of priorities.

As a personal point of experience, when developing WinHugs I made it
Win NT only, by accident. It was only a one line change to fix it, but
it was a very long time before anyone complained, and trying to find a
Win98 machine that could connect to the world was nearly impossible.

Thanks

Neil
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Re: Supported Windows versions (was: Re: unix package)

Bulat Ziganshin-2
In reply to this post by Esa Ilari Vuokko
Hello Esa,

Saturday, June 30, 2007, 9:28:49 PM, you wrote:

> Maybe this is a good place to ask for opinions.  Anyone have any or know of
> need to support old Windows versions?  I am also curious if someone still
> writes software for pre-Windows 2000 NTs, as there's some nice API functions
> in Windows 2000.

i write a general-purpose program (archiver) and will prefer to have
it win9x-compatible. btw, this doesn't have any relation to the fact
that ghc itself can be run on old OSes

regarding i/o library, it will be great to make it independent of GHC
RTS, as Streams does

--
Best regards,
 Bulat                            mailto:[hidden email]

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Re: Supported Windows versions (was: Re: unix package)

Esa Ilari Vuokko
Thanks for answers Neil and Bulat!

It seems that there's still users for Win 9x, as both answers had
something to say about end-users in Win 9x.  Maybe breaking
Win 9x compatibility on purpose isn't sensible yet.

I couldn't get any answers in irc, either.  I recall Windows users
were had lots of opinions in ghc poll few years back, but we are
pretty quiet on these lists.

On 7/1/07, Bulat Ziganshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> i write a general-purpose program (archiver) and will prefer to have
> it win9x-compatible. btw, this doesn't have any relation to the fact
> that ghc itself can be run on old OSes

I realize that.  Do you care about Win32 package or only about ghc
rts and base?  Could you find some resources to test on Win 9x?

What do you think would be workable solution for Win32 package?
I can think of few solutions
 * use old versions of Win32 package if you need Win9x compatibility
   (doesn't need extra work.)
 * Add new package with Win 2k APIs (but that's really annoying
because of overlap)
 * Use CPP to make it possible to compile Win9x-compatible Win32 (need testers!)

Any other ideas?

Best regards,
Esa
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Re[2]: Supported Windows versions (was: Re: unix package)

Bulat Ziganshin-2
Hello Esa,

Friday, July 6, 2007, 12:25:33 AM, you wrote:
>> i write a general-purpose program (archiver) and will prefer to have
>> it win9x-compatible. btw, this doesn't have any relation to the fact
>> that ghc itself can be run on old OSes

> I realize that.  Do you care about Win32 package or only about ghc
> rts and base?  Could you find some resources to test on Win 9x?

i don't use Win32 package at all. i implemented my own file
manipulation and i/o module because it was easiest way to provide
uniform API for both Unix and Windows

i proposed to develop file and i/o library which is
platform-independent, utilize new NT features and still Win9x
compatible (http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Library/IO), but there is
not enough resources to develop it

> What do you think would be workable solution for Win32 package?
> I can think of few solutions
>  * use old versions of Win32 package if you need Win9x compatibility
>    (doesn't need extra work.)
>  * Add new package with Win 2k APIs (but that's really annoying
> because of overlap)
>  * Use CPP to make it possible to compile Win9x-compatible Win32 (need testers!)

i think that, regarding small interest to this theme, the best
solution will be one that require less work. it's obvious that 9x
support will become less and less popular and it's better to focus
attention on new OSes. so, i think that minimal solution is the best
with only one exception - there should be a way to use *both* old and
new lib in project (in order to provide compatibility with both
systems). so i propose the following:

* clone existing library and rename one of copies to either win9x or
winnt. rename modules in this library appropriately. continue
development of one of these clones using NT features freely while
another clone will remain stabilized at current set of features. if
someone will ever want to backport features from new library to old
one (because these particular features are also available on 9x), he
can do it yourself


--
Best regards,
 Bulat                            mailto:[hidden email]

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