# Time for a new logo?

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## Re: Re: Time for a new logo?

 2008/12/17 Neal Alexander <[hidden email]>: > [hidden email] wrote: >> >> George Pollard <[hidden email]> writes: >>> >>> On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 02:47 +0000, Jeff Wheeler wrote: >>>> >>>> I love this ASCII-art version. I tried to make a vector version of it in >>>> Photoshop, and I came up with this [1] and [2]. >>>> >>>> Any critiques/suggestions? I'm thinking about a second version that more >>>> obviously defines the second '>' with color from the bottom-right part of >>>> the lambda. >>>> >>>> Jeff Wheeler >>>> >>>> [1]: http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo1.png>>>> [2]: http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo2.png>>> >>> I like the first version better. :) I'd suggest making the lambda/arrow >>> a bit straighter and beefing up the size of the equals in relation to >>> the rest of the symbol :) >> >> I also like the first better. If the equals was ever so slightly wider, >> it would be absolutely perfect. > > The first is real nice. It has a military feeling I don't like... Cheers, Thu _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
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## Re: Time for a new logo?

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## Re: Time for a new logo?

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## Re: Re: Time for a new logo?

 In reply to this post by Vo Minh Thu > It has a military feeling I don't like... Might look cuddlier with slightly rounded edges. That's what all the cool kids[1] are doing anyway ;) [1]: http://www.python.org/_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment
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## Re: Time for a new logo?

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## Re: Time for a new logo?

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## Re: Time for a new logo?

 In reply to this post by Gianfranco Alongi "Gianfranco Alongi" <[hidden email]> writes: > I agree on what some people say; I see no point in trying to advertise > "elitism". For this reason, my favorite subtitle is "pure . lazy . fun".  Nice and friendly, with some doulbe meanings for the cognoscenti. (I'm sorry, but I can't bring myself to add "simple" in there with a straight face.) Is it an option to add a \tau to the \lambda?  Especially if we go for the lambda in a circle theme - to differentiate from Half-life, Scheme, and other kids' stuff :-) -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
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## Re: Time for a new logo?

 I must agree, the proposal " pure . lazy . fun" is quite funny and informative at the same time. It will hopefully also supply people with something to laugh about when they have learned enough. :) While being true, it's also subtle. /Gf On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Ketil Malde <[hidden email]> wrote: > "Gianfranco Alongi" <[hidden email]> writes: > >> I agree on what some people say; I see no point in trying to advertise >> "elitism". > > For this reason, my favorite subtitle is "pure . lazy . fun".  Nice > and friendly, with some doulbe meanings for the cognoscenti. (I'm > sorry, but I can't bring myself to add "simple" in there with a > straight face.) > > Is it an option to add a \tau to the \lambda?  Especially if we go for > the lambda in a circle theme - to differentiate from Half-life, > Scheme, and other kids' stuff :-) > > -k > -- > If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants > -- Patience is the last resort for those unable to take action _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
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 In reply to this post by Jeff Wheeler-2 On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Jeff Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote: > [1]: http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo1.png> [2]: http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo2.png> > Oops, I meant to post on list. If you play with the angles and vary the stroke thicknesses you'll probably get a friendlier look, vs. the military/airline look these have now. The first '>' doesn't have to be the same thickness as the lambda. Just another $0.02 us. Thanks for running with it. Those look like I imagined. What I like about the design is anybody can draw it in 5 strokes and it's unmistakably what it is. Sharpie, pencil, even spray paint all work. You could make your own hat or t-shirt and wear it to an important event, or a wedding. You could tag a rival cube farm wall to declare some kind of office war. X monad could have a variant of this logo too. >X= (That's how I originally thought of it, just was too lazy to post it anywhere. Sorry about that.) -- Darrin _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Reply | Threaded Open this post in threaded view | ## Re: Time for a new logo?  In reply to this post by Thomas Davie * Thomas Davie <[hidden email]> [2008-12-17 09:10:55 +0100]: > Oh please no, please don't let the logo be something that says "Haskell, > it's all about monads". I don't see anyone complaining about the python logo being something that says "Python, it's all about snakes" (Python is named after Monty Python). I really don't think that including a visual pun on the (>>=) operator translates to "Haskell, it's all about monads"; you're only likely to recognise the pun after you already know about monads anyway. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment Reply | Threaded Open this post in threaded view | ## Re: Time for a new logo?  In reply to this post by Andrew Coppin * Andrew Coppin <[hidden email]> [2008-12-16 20:23:50 +0000]: > I think the accusation is more that Haskell tries to be cryptic and > arcane *on purpose*, just to confuse people. > > Sure, there are many concepts in Haskell which just aren't found > anywhere else. But monads? Catamorphisms? Coroutines? Couldn't we think > up some less intimidating terminology? The problem is that "less intimidating" terminology generally seems to mean inaccurate or misleading terminology. They aren't concepts that aren't found anywhere else, they're concepts that *are* found elsewhere (category theory, among other places), that's why they have those names. (Also, "coroutines"? Seriously? That's hardly an obscure term in programming circles.) > {-# LANGUAGE ExistentialQuantification #-} > > Hmm, now if this was Perl or something, that would be > HiddenTypeVariables or something. Much less fearsom-sounding. Also much less informative, and less accurate. The fact that Haskell embraces its mathematical basis instead of trying to completely obfuscate it away is not a bad thing, in my opinion. > But then, I guess that's what you get for a lanuage designed by a > committee of university professors. ;-) > > At any rate, if we're to have a logo, let's not have one which actively > *promotes* the notion that Haskell is complex and difficult and that > only theoretical physicists need apply... I think you're reading way too much into a logo. -- mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment Reply | Threaded Open this post in threaded view | ## Re: Time for a new logo?  In reply to this post by Tristan Seligmann-3 2008/12/17 Tristan Seligmann I really don't think that including a visual pun on the (>>=) operator translates to "Haskell, it's all about monads"; you're only likely to recognise the pun after you already know about monads anyway.True, true, and who cares about folks afraid of unknown operators which might do wonderfull stuff ;-))) _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Reply | Threaded Open this post in threaded view | ## Re: Time for a new logo?  2008/12/17 wman <[hidden email]>: > 2008/12/17 Tristan Seligmann <[hidden email]> >> >> I really don't think that including a visual pun on the (>>=) >> operator translates to "Haskell, it's all about monads"; you're only >> likely to recognise the pun after you already know about monads anyway. > > True, true, and who cares about folks afraid of unknown operators which > might do wonderfull stuff ;-))) > That's the kind of mentality I am talking about. The "we are better than you" mentality, should stay with the Java and .NET people. If you have this urge of feeling superior and believe haskell-hacking is some kind of achievement..... . Haskell is a tool like any other, it's the ideas you manifest by it that are important. And of course the way you do it. The logo should be attractive; fire sparks of curiosity, represent what haskell is, capture the essence of haskell. Ps: This is no flame, I am making a point. If you feel this is a flame; then I must apologize for the harsh tone. > _______________________________________________ > Haskell-Cafe mailing list > [hidden email] > http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe> > -- Patience is the last resort for those unable to take action _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Reply | Threaded Open this post in threaded view | ## Re: Time for a new logo?  That's the kind of mentality I am talking about. The "we are better than you" mentality, should stay with the Java and .NET people. If you have this urge of feeling superior and believe haskell-hacking is some kind of achievement..... . Well, you are what many call "person who just can't take a joke". I'ts no about being better, it's abot that without curiosity and determination there is no space for embetterment. And would you object to it even if I rephrased it slightly (so even those used to seeing superiority all around them would feel comfortable) :Who cares about people who are afraid of discovering new stuff, who when they don't understand something rather than delving into it with pleasure just cover their eyes and start shouting "I don't wanna know, I don't wanna know" (or even better: "I already know _EVERYTHING_ i will ever need", or the most favorite one "Don't tell me how it works, just tell me what i should do"). > Haskell is a tool like any other, it's the ideas you manifest by it > that are important. And of course the way you do it. The logo should > be attractive; fire sparks of curiosity, represent what haskell is, > capture the essence of haskell.To me, new, unknown things are attractive (not that they might not turn disgusting ;-) ...And how do you capture the essence of math ? How do you, through a logo, tell someone that most of it's elegance comes from the fact that it's derived straight from the laws/rules that governs everything else ? Lambda _and_ a gray-bearded old fart sitting on a cloudlet, with a keyboard plugged into one of the earths poles ???> Ps: This is no flame, I am making a point. If you feel this is a > flame; then I must apologize for the harsh tone.Oh, I've read that after finishing the reply. Ok, substract some irony from mine ;-) _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe Reply | Threaded Open this post in threaded view | ## Re: Re: Time for a new logo?  In reply to this post by Darrin Thompson On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 08:42 -0500, Darrin Thompson wrote: > If you play with the angles and vary the stroke thicknesses you'll > probably get a friendlier look, vs. the military/airline look these > have now. The first '>' doesn't have to be the same thickness as the > lambda. > > Just another$0.02 us. Thanks for running with it. Those look like I imagined. Thanks for the feedback. I've made two versions[1][2] with subtle rounded edges, although now it becomes evident that I have no design skills. :) I tried giving them varying thicknesses, but I couldn't get anything to look quite right. Everybody is welcome to hack it; I've uploaded a PSD [3] (Photoshop src file); unfortunately, I don't have Illustrator and Inkscape is failing to compile. It might be easier for people to hack if somebody could convert this to an Inkscape file. :-/ > X monad could have a variant of this logo too. >X= (That's how I > originally thought of it, just was too lazy to post it anywhere. Sorry > about that.) I like that too; not sure what to do for Yi, though. Anybody mind if I add these to the wiki, too? I feel like I'm taking up tons of space, there. Jeff Wheeler [1] http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo8.png[2] http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo9.png[3] http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo-rounded.psd_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe signature.asc (202 bytes) Download Attachment
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## Re: Re: Time for a new logo?

 In reply to this post by Darrin Thompson Darrin Thompson wrote: > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Jeff Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote: >> [1]: http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo1.png>> [2]: http://media.nokrev.com/junk/haskell-logos/logo2.png>> >> > > Oops, I meant to post on list. > > If you play with the angles and vary the stroke thicknesses you'll > probably get a friendlier look, vs. the military/airline look these > have now. The first '>' doesn't have to be the same thickness as the > lambda. If you look at fonts: characters in a font aren't all straight either; they bend a bit (so that is more than just round corners) and this makes them a lot more interesting. Various levels of bendiness yield various levels of "playfulness". While I already like this logo a lot, I think it could be improved a lot more by making it more "fonty". Note that I'm not saying it should be a very playful logo, just a more fonty one... yeah. Martijn. _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
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## Re: Re: Time for a new logo?

 On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 21:46 +0100, Martijn van Steenbergen wrote: > > If you play with the angles and vary the stroke thicknesses you'll > > probably get a friendlier look, vs. the military/airline look these > > have now. The first '>' doesn't have to be the same thickness as the > > lambda. > > If you look at fonts: characters in a font aren't all straight either; > they bend a bit (so that is more than just round corners) and this makes > them a lot more interesting. Various levels of bendiness yield various > levels of "playfulness". While I already like this logo a lot, I think > it could be improved a lot more by making it more "fonty". Note that I'm > not saying it should be a very playful logo, just a more fonty one... yeah. Might be interesting to try angling the ends of the stems to look something more like the guillemot in [1]. I might try this in Gimp but I'm no designer :P [1] http://haskell.org/sitewiki/images/6/62/Haskell_logo_ideas_falconnl.png_______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe signature.asc (204 bytes) Download Attachment
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## Re: Time for a new logo?

 In reply to this post by Bugzilla from jonathanccast@fastmail.fm Jonathan Cast wrote: >> {-# LANGUAGE ExistentialQuantification #-} >> >> Hmm, now if this was Perl or something, that would be >> HiddenTypeVariables or something. Much less fearsom-sounding. >>     > > No, it's cute.  Repulsively so. >   Right. So giving things meaningful names is "repulsive"? No wonder Haskell has a reputation for being incomprehensible... >> At any rate, if we're to have a logo, let's not have one which actively >> *promotes* the notion that Haskell is complex and difficult and that >> only theoretical physicists need apply... >>     > > I'd like to hold out, again, for the idea that we get a higher-quality > community by promoting that notion. >   In other words, you want to keep Haskell elitist. Well, if that's what the community in general wants, then fine. Personally, I strongly disagree with this snobbish point of view. But I am only one voice... _______________________________________________ Haskell-Cafe mailing list [hidden email] http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe