[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

David Roundy-2
Hi all,

Here's a feature I've added (on my quest to make xmonad non-minimal...) to
my version of xmonad.  It's pretty crude, but I think some sort of
"rotating" is in order.  This way if I have only three workspaces with
anything in them, I don't have to remember their numbers, and don't have to
search through all nine options.

David

Sat Apr 14 22:56:16 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
  * fix typo.

Sat Apr 14 23:30:34 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
  * add code to rotate through non-empty workspaces.
  I don't expect that this will actually be accepted, as my code's pretty
  ugly, but it's a feature I want, and might inspire some ideas.

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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

Spencer Janssen-2
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 23:34:17 -0700
David Roundy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Here's a feature I've added (on my quest to make xmonad
> non-minimal...) to my version of xmonad.  It's pretty crude, but I
> think some sort of "rotating" is in order.  This way if I have only
> three workspaces with anything in them, I don't have to remember
> their numbers, and don't have to search through all nine options.
>
> David
>
> Sat Apr 14 22:56:16 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
>   * fix typo.

This patch applied, thanks.

> Sat Apr 14 23:30:34 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
>   * add code to rotate through non-empty workspaces.
>   I don't expect that this will actually be accepted, as my code's
> pretty ugly, but it's a feature I want, and might inspire some ideas.

I'm tabling this one for now, because:
 - xmonad is in a feature freeze until 0.1 (coming soon)
 - it warrants a good discussion about the aim of xmonad (features,
minimalism, etc).


Cheers,
Spencer Janssen
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

David Roundy-2
On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 03:21:26AM -0500, Spencer Janssen wrote:
> I'm tabling this one for now, because:
>  - xmonad is in a feature freeze until 0.1 (coming soon)
>  - it warrants a good discussion about the aim of xmonad (features,
> minimalism, etc).

Agreed.  Hopefully we (you?) can come up with a minimal core that is
nevertheless sufficiently extensible that a suitable Config.hs file can do
anything a reasonable person would want.
--
David Roundy
http://www.darcs.net
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

Gwern Branwen
David Roundy <[hidden email]> writes:

> On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 03:21:26AM -0500, Spencer Janssen wrote:
>> I'm tabling this one for now, because:
>>  - xmonad is in a feature freeze until 0.1 (coming soon)
>>  - it warrants a good discussion about the aim of xmonad
      (features,
>> minimalism, etc).
>
> Agreed.  Hopefully we (you?) can come up with a minimal core
  that is
> nevertheless sufficiently extensible that a suitable Config.hs
file can do
> anything a reasonable person would want.
> --
> David Roundy

Yes, definitely. I think the best idea would be to have that
stable extensible core, and let people swap around variants of
Config.hs, perhaps including the better ones in the
repository. ie, you could have a Ratpoison-style Config.hs, an Ion
style Config.hs, etc. I think the editor yi does something similar
with different keymap personalities for the emacsers & vimers
among us. The question is, what's left to add?  Right now, the
biggest lack which I can identify in Xmonad as compared to my old
Ratpoison/Stumpwm setup is the lack of any sort of status bar or
display area where I can dump the output of 'top -n 1' or 'uptime'
an' so on. Input seems handle-able by dmenu (despite a bad habit
of changing apostrophes to backticks) and similar programs so
output is the problem.

(Although, I'm not entirely pleased with Config.hs since it keeps
changing and inducing conflicts, but I suppose that's what I get
for changing a lot of defaults and adding stuff.)

--
Gwern
Inquiring minds want to know.
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

David Roundy-2
On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 02:25:52PM -0400, Gwern Branwen wrote:
> [...] The question is, what's left to add?  Right now, the biggest lack
> which I can identify in Xmonad as compared to my old Ratpoison/Stumpwm
> setup is the lack of any sort of status bar or display area where I can
> dump the output of 'top -n 1' or 'uptime' an' so on. Input seems
> handle-able by dmenu (despite a bad habit of changing apostrophes to
> backticks) and similar programs so output is the problem.

Well, for me the ability to customize the tile layout is pretty high in
priority, as are tabs.  Of course, you may say it's my fault for
considering switching to a window manager modelled after one that I
dislike, but there it is.

After that, I'd be interested in a decent input prompt (which dmenu is
not).  Ion's is better, but I'd rather figure out how to make use of an
actual bash shell, as the tab completion of ion's query box is annoying
(but better than nothing).

I guess with those changes (which I understand are pretty huge), xmonad
would have pretty much caught up with ion3 in functionality that I care
about.  Oh, and the ability to customize treatment of windows.  I don't
want xclock to ever get the focus, for instance, and would prefer if I
could stick the stupid korgac control panel application somewhere where
it'll never be seen, and at a minimum to avoid giving it focus.
--
David Roundy
http://www.darcs.net
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

Donald Bruce Stewart
In reply to this post by David Roundy-2
droundy:

> Hi all,
>
> Here's a feature I've added (on my quest to make xmonad non-minimal...) to
> my version of xmonad.  It's pretty crude, but I think some sort of
> "rotating" is in order.  This way if I have only three workspaces with
> anything in them, I don't have to remember their numbers, and don't have to
> search through all nine options.
>
> David
>
> Sat Apr 14 22:56:16 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
>   * fix typo.
>
> Sat Apr 14 23:30:34 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
>   * add code to rotate through non-empty workspaces.
>   I don't expect that this will actually be accepted, as my code's pretty
>   ugly, but it's a feature I want, and might inspire some ideas.

Ok. Yes, this is interesting.

Is it possible to have all this code in your own Config.hs? Being able
to write rotView et al in Config.hs will give us an indication of how
easy it is to just let people hack their own Config.hs (and other
3rd party modules), for extensions, without needing to patch the core.

Basically I see Operations.hs as a default set of wm operations, but I
can imagine people writing their own modules for other functionality,
which people can import into their Config.hs.

-- Don
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

Donald Bruce Stewart
In reply to this post by Gwern Branwen
gwern0:

> David Roundy <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> >On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 03:21:26AM -0500, Spencer Janssen wrote:
> >>I'm tabling this one for now, because:
> >> - xmonad is in a feature freeze until 0.1 (coming soon)
> >> - it warrants a good discussion about the aim of xmonad
>      (features,
> >>minimalism, etc).
> >
> >Agreed.  Hopefully we (you?) can come up with a minimal core
>  that is
> >nevertheless sufficiently extensible that a suitable Config.hs
> file can do
> >anything a reasonable person would want.
> >--
> >David Roundy
>
> Yes, definitely. I think the best idea would be to have that
> stable extensible core, and let people swap around variants of
> Config.hs, perhaps including the better ones in the
> repository. ie, you could have a Ratpoison-style Config.hs, an Ion
> style Config.hs, etc. I think the editor yi does something similar
> with different keymap personalities for the emacsers & vimers
> among us. The question is, what's left to add?  Right now, the
> biggest lack which I can identify in Xmonad as compared to my old
> Ratpoison/Stumpwm setup is the lack of any sort of status bar or

Agreed. Our plan for this is to dump the xmonad state to disk, and use
an external hacked version of dmenu to display this state, along with
other strings from stdin. That way the status bar is entirely optional,
and configurable independently.

> display area where I can dump the output of 'top -n 1' or 'uptime'
> an' so on. Input seems handle-able by dmenu (despite a bad habit
> of changing apostrophes to backticks) and similar programs so
> output is the problem.

Simiarly, a run program would be welcome.

> (Although, I'm not entirely pleased with Config.hs since it keeps
> changing and inducing conflicts, but I suppose that's what I get
> for changing a lot of defaults and adding stuff.)

Yes. This is an interesting issue.
Not sure what the best approach to solve it is: using cpp or other
preprocessing to generate Config.hs doesn't appeal to me.

-- Don
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

Donald Bruce Stewart
In reply to this post by David Roundy-2
droundy:

> On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 02:25:52PM -0400, Gwern Branwen wrote:
> > [...] The question is, what's left to add?  Right now, the biggest lack
> > which I can identify in Xmonad as compared to my old Ratpoison/Stumpwm
> > setup is the lack of any sort of status bar or display area where I can
> > dump the output of 'top -n 1' or 'uptime' an' so on. Input seems
> > handle-able by dmenu (despite a bad habit of changing apostrophes to
> > backticks) and similar programs so output is the problem.
>
> Well, for me the ability to customize the tile layout is pretty high in
> priority, as are tabs.  Of course, you may say it's my fault for

Right. I'd hope ,  as I've said earlier, we could do all this via
contributed Config.hs files. Leaving the core xmonad as a dwm-like
system. but with arbitrary functionality via extra modules.

> considering switching to a window manager modelled after one that I
> dislike, but there it is.
>
> After that, I'd be interested in a decent input prompt (which dmenu is
> not).  Ion's is better, but I'd rather figure out how to make use of an
> actual bash shell, as the tab completion of ion's query box is annoying
> (but better than nothing).

Does anyone know of a 3rd party tool for this? Like dmenu , but for more
complex input?

Also, does dzen get us anywhere towards this?

> I guess with those changes (which I understand are pretty huge), xmonad
> would have pretty much caught up with ion3 in functionality that I care
> about.  Oh, and the ability to customize treatment of windows.  I don't
> want xclock to ever get the focus, for instance, and would prefer if I
> could stick the stupid korgac control panel application somewhere where
> it'll never be seen, and at a minimum to avoid giving it focus.

Not obvious how to do that yet.

-- Don
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

Alec Berryman
Donald Bruce Stewart on 2007-04-16 09:13:31 +1000:

> droundy:
> >
> > After that, I'd be interested in a decent input prompt (which dmenu is
> > not).  Ion's is better, but I'd rather figure out how to make use of an
> > actual bash shell, as the tab completion of ion's query box is annoying
> > (but better than nothing).
>
> Does anyone know of a 3rd party tool for this? Like dmenu , but for more
> complex input?

gmrun includes tab-completion, handles URLs, and can open specified
programs in a shell.
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

David Roundy-2
In reply to this post by Donald Bruce Stewart
On Mon, Apr 16, 2007 at 09:08:42AM +1000, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:

> droundy:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Here's a feature I've added (on my quest to make xmonad non-minimal...) to
> > my version of xmonad.  It's pretty crude, but I think some sort of
> > "rotating" is in order.  This way if I have only three workspaces with
> > anything in them, I don't have to remember their numbers, and don't have to
> > search through all nine options.
> >
> > David
> >
> > Sat Apr 14 22:56:16 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
> >   * fix typo.
> >
> > Sat Apr 14 23:30:34 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
> >   * add code to rotate through non-empty workspaces.
> >   I don't expect that this will actually be accepted, as my code's pretty
> >   ugly, but it's a feature I want, and might inspire some ideas.
>
> Ok. Yes, this is interesting.
>
> Is it possible to have all this code in your own Config.hs? Being able
> to write rotView et al in Config.hs will give us an indication of how
> easy it is to just let people hack their own Config.hs (and other
> 3rd party modules), for extensions, without needing to patch the core.

Yes, of course.  Anything that doesn't modify XMonad or Main can be done in
Config, since Operations and StackSet both have no export lists.  I assumed
that export lists were intended to be added, and that's why I put code that
seemed "Operations-level" in Operations and "StackSet-level" in StackSet.

> Basically I see Operations.hs as a default set of wm operations, but I
> can imagine people writing their own modules for other functionality,
> which people can import into their Config.hs.

I see.  That's fine.  I do think there should be an export list for
StackSet, though, so you can change the internal structure in the future.
--
David Roundy
http://www.darcs.net
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

Donald Bruce Stewart
droundy:

> On Mon, Apr 16, 2007 at 09:08:42AM +1000, Donald Bruce Stewart wrote:
> > droundy:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Here's a feature I've added (on my quest to make xmonad non-minimal...) to
> > > my version of xmonad.  It's pretty crude, but I think some sort of
> > > "rotating" is in order.  This way if I have only three workspaces with
> > > anything in them, I don't have to remember their numbers, and don't have to
> > > search through all nine options.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > Sat Apr 14 22:56:16 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
> > >   * fix typo.
> > >
> > > Sat Apr 14 23:30:34 PDT 2007  David Roundy <[hidden email]>
> > >   * add code to rotate through non-empty workspaces.
> > >   I don't expect that this will actually be accepted, as my code's pretty
> > >   ugly, but it's a feature I want, and might inspire some ideas.
> >
> > Ok. Yes, this is interesting.
> >
> > Is it possible to have all this code in your own Config.hs? Being able
> > to write rotView et al in Config.hs will give us an indication of how
> > easy it is to just let people hack their own Config.hs (and other
> > 3rd party modules), for extensions, without needing to patch the core.
>
> Yes, of course.  Anything that doesn't modify XMonad or Main can be done in
> Config, since Operations and StackSet both have no export lists.  I assumed
> that export lists were intended to be added, and that's why I put code that
> seemed "Operations-level" in Operations and "StackSet-level" in StackSet.
>
> > Basically I see Operations.hs as a default set of wm operations, but I
> > can imagine people writing their own modules for other functionality,
> > which people can import into their Config.hs.
>
> I see.  That's fine.  I do think there should be an export list for
> StackSet, though, so you can change the internal structure in the future.

Yes, that's a good idea. We can just fix the API now, if we're going to
treat the core xmonad as a library.

-- Don
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gmrun and pasting (was Re: [Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more))

Alec Berryman
In reply to this post by Alec Berryman
Gwern Branwen on 2007-04-15 23:20:24 -0400:

>  Alec Berryman <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> > Donald Bruce Stewart on 2007-04-16 09:13:31 +1000:
> >
> >> droundy:
> >> >
> >> > After that, I'd be interested in a decent input prompt (which dmenu is
> >> > not).  Ion's is better, but I'd rather figure out how to make use of an
> >> > actual bash shell, as the tab completion of ion's query box is annoying
> >> > (but better than nothing).
> >>
> >> Does anyone know of a 3rd party tool for this? Like dmenu , but for more
> >> complex input?
> >
> > gmrun includes tab-completion, handles URLs, and can open specified
> > programs in a shell.
>
>  Does gmrun also handle pasting, either through a mouse or a keybinding
>  (preferably the latter)?

Yes to both, but due to either a bug in gmrun or xmonad, it isn't
particularly convenient.  If I copy something to the X11 clipboard by
selecting it with the mouse, then run gmrun via the default keybinding,
I can't paste either with a middle click or with shift-insert.  If I
switch to another window, I can still paste what I had previously
copied, and if I now copy something to the clipboard and switch back to
the still-running gmrun I can paste fine.
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[Xmonad] darcs patch: fix typo. (and 1 more)

David Roundy-2
In reply to this post by Alec Berryman
On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 08:39:55PM -0400, Alec Berryman wrote:

> Donald Bruce Stewart on 2007-04-16 09:13:31 +1000:
> > droundy:
> > > After that, I'd be interested in a decent input prompt (which dmenu
> > > is not).  Ion's is better, but I'd rather figure out how to make use
> > > of an actual bash shell, as the tab completion of ion's query box is
> > > annoying (but better than nothing).
> >
> > Does anyone know of a 3rd party tool for this? Like dmenu , but for
> > more complex input?
>
> gmrun includes tab-completion, handles URLs, and can open specified
> programs in a shell.

Ah yes, that looks much nicer! The only catch is that it doesn't do
tab-completion on arguments to the program... or rather, it does do
tab-completion, but assumes the only arguments will be other programs.

It suffers from the same problem ion's query menu does, which is that it
tries to reinvent the wheel (which is to say, tab completion).  Still, it's
close to as good as ion3's query menu, which itself is good enough that I
haven't yet gotten around to replacing it (although it annoys me almost
every time I use it), so I suppose for now it'll do.
--
David Roundy
Department of Physics
Oregon State University