databases in Haskell & type-safety

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Re: Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

John Goerzen-3
Xie Hanjian wrote:
> * John Goerzen <[hidden email]> [2009-01-13 12:37:45 -0600]:
>
> Redmine requires only ruby 1.8.6 and rails 2.1.2, which are both stable
> releases, so I think an upgrade of your ruby stack is very reasonable.

It also requires a newer version of rake than is in Debian.  Not a
problem as such, but you start working with gem install commands (and
their friends), and eventually find that after spending 30 minutes
installing/upgrading stuff, it bombs at the very end saying that some
component needed a newer version of something than is available, and it
can't install that component, so it's left the server hosed -- too new
to run the old version, not ready to accept the new.  Great.

It ought to have checked the dependencies *before* messing with my
system.  And it ought not to have failed mysteriously anyhow.

>> To anyone annoyed with Haskell's library install process: you have no
>> idea how good you have it unless you've tried Ruby and rails.
>
> Disagree. Rubygems is fairly easy to use. At lease, I can guess how to

It is completely poorly documented on how to gem install something when
you don't have root.  The gem(1) manpage is a joke.  The online help
doesn't help much either.   Turns out there is a magic combination of
undocumented environment variables and documented command-line options
that does it.  Or at least, I *thought* it does it.

The other problem about Rails is that code and data are inseparably
mixed.  It will be just about impossible to install a rails app as a
Debian package because it needs write access to its install directory,
and this stuff is not easily configured to use /usr and /etc as appropriate.

Anyhow, this is a Haskell list, so I'm not going to rant any more about
this here.  I can give you details off-list if you like.  It's touched a
nerve lately.

-- John
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Re: Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

Jan-34
* John Goerzen <[hidden email]> [2009-01-13 20:53:40 -0600]:

> Xie Hanjian wrote:
> > * John Goerzen <[hidden email]> [2009-01-13 12:37:45 -0600]:
> >
> > Redmine requires only ruby 1.8.6 and rails 2.1.2, which are both stable
> > releases, so I think an upgrade of your ruby stack is very reasonable.
>
> It also requires a newer version of rake than is in Debian.  Not a
> problem as such, but you start working with gem install commands (and
> their friends), and eventually find that after spending 30 minutes
> installing/upgrading stuff, it bombs at the very end saying that some
> component needed a newer version of something than is available, and it
> can't install that component, so it's left the server hosed -- too new
> to run the old version, not ready to accept the new.  Great.
>
> It ought to have checked the dependencies *before* messing with my
> system.  And it ought not to have failed mysteriously anyhow.
>
> >> To anyone annoyed with Haskell's library install process: you have no
> >> idea how good you have it unless you've tried Ruby and rails.
> >
> > Disagree. Rubygems is fairly easy to use. At lease, I can guess how to
>
> It is completely poorly documented on how to gem install something when
> you don't have root.  The gem(1) manpage is a joke.  The online help
> doesn't help much either.   Turns out there is a magic combination of
> undocumented environment variables and documented command-line options
> that does it.  Or at least, I *thought* it does it.
>
> The other problem about Rails is that code and data are inseparably
> mixed.  It will be just about impossible to install a rails app as a
> Debian package because it needs write access to its install directory,
> and this stuff is not easily configured to use /usr and /etc as appropriate.
From your description it seems debian's rails stack mess you up, not
ruby/rails itself. And I think install a rails app as a debian package
is not a good idea.

>
> Anyhow, this is a Haskell list, so I'm not going to rant any more about
> this here.  I can give you details off-list if you like.  It's touched a

ok :-|

Jan

> nerve lately.
>
> -- John
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe

--
jan=callcc{|jan|jan};jan.call(jan)

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Re: Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

Duncan Coutts
In reply to this post by Jan-34
On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 10:19 +0800, Xie Hanjian wrote:
> * John Goerzen <[hidden email]> [2009-01-13 12:37:45 -0600]:
>

> > To anyone annoyed with Haskell's library install process: you have no
> > idea how good you have it unless you've tried Ruby and rails.
>
> Disagree. Rubygems is fairly easy to use. At lease, I can guess how to
> uninstall a package by trying 'gem uninstall foobar', but failed by
> trying 'cabal uninstall/remove foobar' :-)

It's a fair point. Patches gratefully accepted! :-)


Duncan

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Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

Maurí­cio
In reply to this post by Gour-3
> Mauricio> No. Only sqlite3_exec with INSERT, SELECT stuff,
> Mauricio> and saving everything that needs structure in pseudo-xml
> Mauricio> strings. Not that efficient, but easy to change to blobs when
> Mauricio> everything is ready and tested.
>
> I see...I'm thinking to maybe store only paths for bigger BLOBs, but
> still there is need to store smaller (thumbnails pics) ones...
>

You can always uuencode the pictures. Package 'dataenc'
seems nice, although I have not used it.

Best,
Maurício

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Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

Gour-3
>>>>> "Mauricio" == Mauricio  <[hidden email]> writes:

Mauricio> You can always uuencode the pictures. Package 'dataenc' seems
Mauricio> nice, although I have not used it.

Thanks.

It looks like a nice 'workaround' with base64 encoding.


Sincerely,
Gour


--

Gour  | Zagreb, Croatia  | GPG key: C6E7162D
----------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

GŸuenther Schmidt
In reply to this post by Austin Seipp
Hi Austin,

could you post the patch please?

So far there is no updated version of takusen that builds with ghc
6.10

Günther

On 3 Jan., 11:25, Austin Seipp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Excerpts from Gour's message of Sat Jan 03 03:48:44 -0600 2009:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi!
>
> > I'd like to use sqlite3 as application storage in my haskell project...
>
> > Browsing the available database options in Haskell it seems that:
>
> > a) HSQL is dead (hackage reports build-failure with 6.8 & 6.10)
>
> > b) haskelldb is also not in a good shape - build fails with 6.8 & 6.10
>
> > For Haskell-newbie as myself, it looks that haskelldb is the one which
> > provide(ed)s the most secure API (I was reading draft paper about
> > MetaHDBC but, apparently, the type inference support in open-source
> > databases is poor and that's why, according to the author "This is
> > unfortunately as it makes MetaHDBC a lot less valuable."
>
> > What remains is:
>
> > c)Takusenwhich is also not up-to-date (it fails with 6.10) and
>
> > d) HDBC and sqlite bindings which are the only packages which build with
> > 6.10.
>
> Have you tried the simple sqlite3 bindings available?http://hackage.haskell.org/cgi-bin/hackage-scripts/package/sqlite
>
> > I'm not familiar withTakusenwhich says: "Takusen'sunique selling
> > point is safety and efficiency..." and I would appreciate if someone
> > could shed some more light to its 'safety' and the present status?
>
> Takusenis based on the (unique) concept of a left-fold
> enumerator. Having a left-fold interface guarantees timely (nearly
> perfect, really) deallocation of resources while still having the
> benefits of a 'lazy' stream. This interface has (as shown by Oleg and
> others) proven to be very efficient in a number of cases as well as
> favorable for many. The idea is very novel, and truly worth exploring
> if you ask me.
>
> For more information about left-fold enumerators andtakusen, see here:
>
> http://okmij.org/ftp/papers/LL3-collections-enumerators.txthttp://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/fold-stream.lhshttp://okmij.org/ftp/Haskell/misc.html#takusen
>
> NB: I have *just* (about 5 minutes ago) sent in a patch fortakusen
> to get it to build on GHC 6.10.1 to Oleg. Hopefully an updated version
> will appear on hackage in the next few days.
>
> Austin
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Re: Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

Austin Seipp
Excerpts from GŸuenther Schmidt's message of Thu Jan 29 07:42:51 -0600 2009:
> Hi Austin,
>
> could you post the patch please?
>
> So far there is no updated version of takusen that builds with ghc
> 6.10
>
> Günther

Hi Gunther,

I recently got an email back from Alstair Bayley who is one of the
Takusen authors, and they said they are preparing a GHC 6.10 release
(I was *not* the only person to submit a patch for ghc 6.10 building)
but it may take a little while. You might want to get in contact with
Alstair and ask what the current progress is.

Austin
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Re: Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

Alistair Bayley
> I recently got an email back from Alstair Bayley who is one of the
> Takusen authors, and they said they are preparing a GHC 6.10 release
> (I was *not* the only person to submit a patch for ghc 6.10 building)
> but it may take a little while. You might want to get in contact with
> Alstair and ask what the current progress is.

I've got it building (tests pass etc) but the haddock docs won't build
at present (with ghc-6.10.1). I want to get these little problems
sorted out before I package up the next release. If you're desperate
then I could push what I have so far into the repo and you could build
from that.

Alistair
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Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

GŸuenther Schmidt
Hi Alistair,

yes, please, pretty please do!

I really am desparate, I'm running into so much trouble because I have
to export to MS-Access and I'm a little out of luck with HDBC. HDBC
works like a charm
unless you have to use MS-Access.

Günther



On 29 Jan., 22:24, Alistair Bayley <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > I recently got an email back from Alstair Bayley who is one of the
> > Takusen authors, and they said they are preparing a GHC 6.10 release
> > (I was *not* the only person to submit a patch for ghc 6.10 building)
> > but it may take a little while. You might want to get in contact with
> > Alstair and ask what the current progress is.
>
> I've got it building (tests pass etc) but the haddock docs won't build
> at present (with ghc-6.10.1). I want to get these little problems
> sorted out before I package up the next release. If you're desperate
> then I could push what I have so far into the repo and you could build
> from that.
>
> Alistair
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> [hidden email]://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
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Re: Re: databases in Haskell & type-safety

Alistair Bayley
2009/1/30 guenni68 <[hidden email]>:
> Hi Alistair,
>
> yes, please, pretty please do!
>
> I really am desparate, I'm running into so much trouble because I have
> to export to MS-Access and I'm a little out of luck with HDBC. HDBC
> works like a charm
> unless you have to use MS-Access.

Hmm... it's not likely you'll have much success with Takusen either,
as you will also have to use the ODBC bindings for MS Access, and I
have not tested this combination. Perhaps you can consider an
alternative route for export, like CSV?

Alistair
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