hackagebot future ?

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hackagebot future ?

Simon Michael
Hello all,

hackagebot is the bot I've been maintaining for a few years which announces new hackage uploads in the #haskell IRC channel. I've tried to keep it "a well-behaved, non-annoying bot". It's configured to announce up to 5 uploads at a time, with at least a 5 minute interval between announcements.

As our community grows, upload activity increases, and more megaprojects with many uploads appear, I've seen more complaints about the noise, and noticed channel ops muting it temporarily. A few weeks ago this happened, and also a possible problem with the correctness of the announcements or the feed was reported. I didn't have time to investigate, so I left it offline, inviting feedback if anyone missed it.

Since then I've heard nothing. So, even though I personally like seeing the uploads, and the conversations and connections that sometimes result, I'm inclined to let hackagebot rest indefinitely. Or, would a new maintainer like to take it on ? If you have feelings about it one way or the other, please reply on-list.

Thanks!
-Simon


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Re: hackagebot future ?

Joachim Breitner-2
Hi,

Am Dienstag, den 27.12.2016, 12:17 -0800 schrieb Simon Michael:
> So, even though I personally like seeing the uploads, and the
> conversations and connections that sometimes result

me too! But I only stop by IRC when I have an agenda these days, so it
doesn’t matter to me much more.

Greetings,
Joachim


--
Joachim “nomeata” Breitner
  [hidden email]https://www.joachim-breitner.de/
  XMPP: [hidden email] • OpenPGP-Key: 0xF0FBF51F
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Re: hackagebot future ?

Joe Hillenbrand
In reply to this post by Simon Michael
I get my release announcements from http://haskellnews.org/

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Simon Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> hackagebot is the bot I've been maintaining for a few years which announces new hackage uploads in the #haskell IRC channel. I've tried to keep it "a well-behaved, non-annoying bot". It's configured to announce up to 5 uploads at a time, with at least a 5 minute interval between announcements.
>
> As our community grows, upload activity increases, and more megaprojects with many uploads appear, I've seen more complaints about the noise, and noticed channel ops muting it temporarily. A few weeks ago this happened, and also a possible problem with the correctness of the announcements or the feed was reported. I didn't have time to investigate, so I left it offline, inviting feedback if anyone missed it.
>
> Since then I've heard nothing. So, even though I personally like seeing the uploads, and the conversations and connections that sometimes result, I'm inclined to let hackagebot rest indefinitely. Or, would a new maintainer like to take it on ? If you have feelings about it one way or the other, please reply on-list.
>
> Thanks!
> -Simon
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
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Re: hackagebot future ?

Jay Sulzberger
In reply to this post by Simon Michael

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, Simon Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> hackagebot is the bot I've been maintaining for a few years
> which announces new hackage uploads in the #haskell IRC
> channel. I've tried to keep it "a well-behaved, non-annoying
> bot". It's configured to announce up to 5 uploads at a time,
> with at least a 5 minute interval between announcements.
>
> As our community grows, upload activity increases, and more
> megaprojects with many uploads appear, I've seen more
> complaints about the noise, and noticed channel ops muting it
> temporarily. A few weeks ago this happened, and also a possible
> problem with the correctness of the announcements or the feed
> was reported. I didn't have time to investigate, so I left it
> offline, inviting feedback if anyone missed it.
>
> Since then I've heard nothing. So, even though I personally
> like seeing the uploads, and the conversations and connections
> that sometimes result, I'm inclined to let hackagebot rest
> indefinitely. Or, would a new maintainer like to take it on ?
> If you have feelings about it one way or the other, please
> reply on-list.
>
> Thanks!
> -Simon

Perhaps one could send a signal to hackagebot telling it to not
send announcements, or perhaps to queue 'em up and then send a
batch when requested.  Or maybe have the bot just send a pointer
to today's web page with all of today's announcements, neatly
laid out.

oo--JS.

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Re: hackagebot future ?

Brandon Allbery
One of the issues that was brought up was that there was a bit of a flood of badly filled out cabal/stack projects uploaded at one point, so the channel got treated to a lot of "foo: Initial project template" announcements. Not much a bot can do about that, but it does increase the frustration level in-channel a fair bit and make people wonder if an announce bot is worth the trouble.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:51 PM, Jay Sulzberger <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, Simon Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello all,

hackagebot is the bot I've been maintaining for a few years
which announces new hackage uploads in the #haskell IRC
channel. I've tried to keep it "a well-behaved, non-annoying
bot". It's configured to announce up to 5 uploads at a time,
with at least a 5 minute interval between announcements.

As our community grows, upload activity increases, and more
megaprojects with many uploads appear, I've seen more
complaints about the noise, and noticed channel ops muting it
temporarily. A few weeks ago this happened, and also a possible
problem with the correctness of the announcements or the feed
was reported. I didn't have time to investigate, so I left it
offline, inviting feedback if anyone missed it.

Since then I've heard nothing. So, even though I personally
like seeing the uploads, and the conversations and connections
that sometimes result, I'm inclined to let hackagebot rest
indefinitely. Or, would a new maintainer like to take it on ?
If you have feelings about it one way or the other, please
reply on-list.

Thanks!
-Simon

Perhaps one could send a signal to hackagebot telling it to not
send announcements, or perhaps to queue 'em up and then send a
batch when requested.  Or maybe have the bot just send a pointer
to today's web page with all of today's announcements, neatly
laid out.

oo--JS.


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--
brandon s allbery kf8nh                               sine nomine associates
[hidden email]                                  [hidden email]
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad        http://sinenomine.net

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Re: hackagebot future ?

Jay Sulzberger

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, Brandon Allbery <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One of the issues that was brought up was that there was a bit of a flood
> of badly filled out cabal/stack projects uploaded at one point, so the
> channel got treated to a lot of "foo: Initial project template"
> announcements. Not much a bot can do about that, but it does increase the
> frustration level in-channel a fair bit and make people wonder if an
> announce bot is worth the trouble.

Ah, OK.  Last week I gave to the Hackage search engine "Lambda
Calculus".  I got back many projects.

oo--JS.


>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 9:51 PM, Jay Sulzberger <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Dec 2016, Simon Michael <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> hackagebot is the bot I've been maintaining for a few years
>>> which announces new hackage uploads in the #haskell IRC
>>> channel. I've tried to keep it "a well-behaved, non-annoying
>>> bot". It's configured to announce up to 5 uploads at a time,
>>> with at least a 5 minute interval between announcements.
>>>
>>> As our community grows, upload activity increases, and more
>>> megaprojects with many uploads appear, I've seen more
>>> complaints about the noise, and noticed channel ops muting it
>>> temporarily. A few weeks ago this happened, and also a possible
>>> problem with the correctness of the announcements or the feed
>>> was reported. I didn't have time to investigate, so I left it
>>> offline, inviting feedback if anyone missed it.
>>>
>>> Since then I've heard nothing. So, even though I personally
>>> like seeing the uploads, and the conversations and connections
>>> that sometimes result, I'm inclined to let hackagebot rest
>>> indefinitely. Or, would a new maintainer like to take it on ?
>>> If you have feelings about it one way or the other, please
>>> reply on-list.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> -Simon
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps one could send a signal to hackagebot telling it to not
>> send announcements, or perhaps to queue 'em up and then send a
>> batch when requested.  Or maybe have the bot just send a pointer
>> to today's web page with all of today's announcements, neatly
>> laid out.
>>
>> oo--JS.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> brandon s allbery kf8nh                               sine nomine associates
> [hidden email]                                  [hidden email]
> unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad        http://sinenomine.net
>
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Re: hackagebot future ?

Chris Wong-2
In reply to this post by Simon Michael
Hi Simon,

I maintain an analogous bot for the Rust community, [1] which also
happens to be written in Haskell (for frivolous reasons). I thought it
would be useful to share my experience.

> ... As our community grows, upload activity increases, and more megaprojects with many uploads appear, I've seen more complaints about the noise, and noticed channel ops muting it temporarily. ...

To avoid drowning out discussion, we moved all the bots to their own
#rust-bots channel. This solution has worked well for us so far, and
lets my bot run with a looser rate limit (20 uploads per minute). We
announce compiler+stdlib changes and CI results on there as well.

> Since then I've heard nothing. So, even though I personally like seeing the uploads, and the conversations and connections that sometimes result, I'm inclined to let hackagebot rest indefinitely. Or, would a new maintainer like to take it on ? If you have feelings about it one way or the other, please reply on-list.

I guess another solution could be to batch up these announcements, and
if there are too many of them, send them in a condensed form.
Something like this:

    [hackagebot] New: twilight-0.1, pinkie-0.0. Updated:
applejack-0.3.7, rarity-1.0.1.1, fluttershy-4.3.2.
    [hackagebot] Read more at https://hackage.haskell.org/packages/recent

This may be better than the "separate channel" solution if we want to
encourage conversation about these new packages.

I would be happy to take on maintaining hackagebot. Since I'm already
running one package announcer, adding a second shouldn't be too much
of a burden 😉. It'd be interesting to see if the two code bases can
be merged, and if we could rewrite the bot to use irc-core [2] instead
of a home-grown thing.

Chris

[1] https://github.com/lfairy/hircine/tree/master/brigitte
[2] https://hackage.haskell.org/package/irc-core

--
Chris Wong (https://lambda.xyz)

"I had not the vaguest idea what this meant and when I could not
remember the words, my tutor threw the book at my head, which did not
stimulate my intellect in any way." -- Bertrand Russell
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Re: hackagebot future ?

Joachim Durchholz
In reply to this post by Jay Sulzberger
Am 28.12.2016 um 03:51 schrieb Jay Sulzberger:
> Perhaps one could send a signal to hackagebot telling it to not
> send announcements,

If one person requests a list, then others might be annoyed because of
the noise; moving from push to pull is not a solution for noise.

If announcements are to be curated, a bot could be made to post
something only on request.
Maybe one could integrate a one-line text input field on the upload page
on Hackage:
   In-chat announcement (why is this upload noteworthy?): [______]

 > or perhaps to queue 'em up and then send a
 > batch when requested.
 >
 > Or maybe have the bot just send a pointer
> to today's web page with all of today's announcements, neatly
> laid out.

The value of chat is that it is instant. For other delivery modes, other
media are easier to use:
- A mailing list for batched updates.
- A web page for people who prefer to pull info when they want it.
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Re: hackagebot future ?

Simon Michael
In reply to this post by Chris Wong-2
On 12/27/16 10:07 PM, Chris Wong wrote:

> Hi Simon,
>
> I maintain an analogous bot for the Rust community, [1] which also
> happens to be written in Haskell (for frivolous reasons). I thought it
> would be useful to share my experience.
>
>> ... As our community grows, upload activity increases, and more megaprojects with many uploads appear, I've seen more complaints about the noise, and noticed channel ops muting it temporarily. ...
> To avoid drowning out discussion, we moved all the bots to their own
> #rust-bots channel. This solution has worked well for us so far, and
> lets my bot run with a looser rate limit (20 uploads per minute). We
> announce compiler+stdlib changes and CI results on there as well.
>
>> Since then I've heard nothing. So, even though I personally like seeing the uploads, and the conversations and connections that sometimes result, I'm inclined to let hackagebot rest indefinitely. Or, would a new maintainer like to take it on ? If you have feelings about it one way or the other, please reply on-list.
> I guess another solution could be to batch up these announcements, and
> if there are too many of them, send them in a condensed form.
> Something like this:
>
>      [hackagebot] New: twilight-0.1, pinkie-0.0. Updated:
> applejack-0.3.7, rarity-1.0.1.1, fluttershy-4.3.2.
>      [hackagebot] Read more at https://hackage.haskell.org/packages/recent
>
> This may be better than the "separate channel" solution if we want to
> encourage conversation about these new packages.
>
> I would be happy to take on maintaining hackagebot. Since I'm already
> running one package announcer, adding a second shouldn't be too much
> of a burden 😉. It'd be interesting to see if the two code bases can
> be merged, and if we could rewrite the bot to use irc-core [2] instead
> of a home-grown thing.
>
> Chris
>
> [1] https://github.com/lfairy/hircine/tree/master/brigitte
> [2] https://hackage.haskell.org/package/irc-core
>
Thanks for the replies all. Chris, thank you for your offer! I hereby
transfer hackagebot to your care. Contact me directly ([hidden email],
sm on freenode) for any help needed.

Best,

Simon


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Re: hackagebot future ?

Chris Wong-2
> Thanks for the replies all. Chris, thank you for your offer! I hereby transfer hackagebot to your care. Contact me directly ([hidden email], sm on freenode) for any help needed.

Sounds good to me! I assume the code is hosted at [1].

I'm busy with New Year stuff right now, so I'll give it a proper look
through over the next few weeks.

--
Chris Wong (https://lambda.xyz)

"I had not the vaguest idea what this meant and when I could not
remember the words, my tutor threw the book at my head, which did not
stimulate my intellect in any way." -- Bertrand Russell
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