haskell/bytestring stalled?

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haskell/bytestring stalled?

Fumiaki Kinoshita
I noticed that issues and PRs on bytestring repository[0] have received no feedback in past 6 months. Does anyone know what's going on? If I can help moving things along, I definitely would like to.


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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Herbert Valerio Riedel-3
Hello Fumiaki,

Bytestring is a fundamental library which is used by almost everyone, so its goal is first and foremost to be stable and reliable; hence its maintenance is generally very conservative and slow-paced; it's better this way than to risk introducing regressions. But also, 6 months without visible feedback for a library that's generally considered mature isn't something to be alarmed about either. I for one cycle through the projects I maintain when time permits (usually on weekends) and try to reduce the context switches by working for several hours on a single project, eventually resulting in a new release. This batched mode of operation also means that it takes some time to complete an orbit around all projects and I don't consider this a bad thing; In fact, I don't subscribe to the release early and often poorly paradigm anymore after having exercised it myself as producer as well as experienced it as consumer for a couple decades and I've been burned too many time by careless rushed releases (both by myself as well as others). Maybe I'm just getting older and wiser.

That being said, if you or others want to help out with projects I (co)maintain such as `bytestring`, please get into contact with me. There are things you can do to help with the review of PRs and other tasks that benefit from as many hands or eyes as possible and which would reduce the workload during the focused batch-phase when the careful dedicated release processes is initiated.

-- Herbert


On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 9:48 AM Fumiaki Kinoshita <[hidden email]> wrote:
I noticed that issues and PRs on bytestring repository[0] have received no feedback in past 6 months. Does anyone know what's going on? If I can help moving things along, I definitely would like to.

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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Haskell - Libraries mailing list
Thanks for bringing up this issue, Fumiaki!

Your email prompted me to review a few PRs today:

* [#155], which hadn't received a review since it it was opened a year
and 9 months ago, promptly got new commits from its author, M
Farkas-Dyck! :)

* In [#151], which promises rather impressive performance
improvements, the author Sergey Vinokurov reacted understandably
disappointed to my requests for more benchmark results, after his PR
had gone unacknowledged for 1 year and 10 months.

I think #151 demonstrates how unresponsive maintenance hurts a project
– contributors are disappointed by the lack of response and lose their
motivation to finish their work. Potential contributors are
discouraged when they see that existing PRs aren't getting merged.

Moreover, I believe that when core libraries like bytestring get into
such a sad state, it hurts the appearance of and users' confidence
into the Haskell ecosystem as a whole.

I don't blame Herbert or Duncan (CC'd) for not putting more work into
bytestring – I'm thankful for all their amazing work for the Haskell
ecosystem. But my impression is that both have far more (maintenance
and other) responsibilities than available time for unpaid open source
work. So I hope that they will allow others to help repair the current
situation and get bytestring onto a more sustainable base.

I would also like to ask Duncan, the official maintainer, whether he
intends to become more active again in this project or whether he
might be interested in passing the maintainer hat to someone with more
available time for this project. I'm asking because there are at least
two PRs that seem to be ready to go, except they're waiting for a
review from him:

* [#121] has been waiting for his review for 1 year and 10 months.
* [#132] has been waiting for his review for at least 1 year and 11 months.

Right now I believe it would be good to have a maintainer with the
available time to shepherd some new contributors like Fumiaki or me.
Since I admittedly don't trust Duncan and Herbert to have that time, I
wonder whether someone else, for example from GHC HQ, could get the
commit bits. I know that Ben Gamari (CC'd) has requested them for
other reasons [1].

It's clear that there are several people interested in helping to
maintain and improve bytestring – theindigamer15 (CC'd) offered his
help this February in an email that never got an official response
[2]. But as long as PRs are unlikely to get merged, there's no point
in opening or reviewing one.

Cheers,
Simon

[1] https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/ghc-devops-group/2019-July/000322.html
[2] https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2019-February/130705.html
[#121] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/121
[#132] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/132
[#151] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/151
[#155] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/155
















Am Mi., 18. Dez. 2019 um 10:40 Uhr schrieb Herbert Valerio Riedel
<[hidden email]>:

>
> Hello Fumiaki,
>
> Bytestring is a fundamental library which is used by almost everyone, so its goal is first and foremost to be stable and reliable; hence its maintenance is generally very conservative and slow-paced; it's better this way than to risk introducing regressions. But also, 6 months without visible feedback for a library that's generally considered mature isn't something to be alarmed about either. I for one cycle through the projects I maintain when time permits (usually on weekends) and try to reduce the context switches by working for several hours on a single project, eventually resulting in a new release. This batched mode of operation also means that it takes some time to complete an orbit around all projects and I don't consider this a bad thing; In fact, I don't subscribe to the release early and often poorly paradigm anymore after having exercised it myself as producer as well as experienced it as consumer for a couple decades and I've been burned too many time by careless rushed releases (both by myself as well as others). Maybe I'm just getting older and wiser.
>
> That being said, if you or others want to help out with projects I (co)maintain such as `bytestring`, please get into contact with me. There are things you can do to help with the review of PRs and other tasks that benefit from as many hands or eyes as possible and which would reduce the workload during the focused batch-phase when the careful dedicated release processes is initiated.
>
> -- Herbert
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 9:48 AM Fumiaki Kinoshita <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I noticed that issues and PRs on bytestring repository[0] have received no feedback in past 6 months. Does anyone know what's going on? If I can help moving things along, I definitely would like to.
>>
>> [0] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring
>> _______________________________________________
>> Libraries mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries
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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Herbert Valerio Riedel-3
Hi Simon,

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:43 AM Simon Jakobi
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Your email prompted me to review a few PRs today:

Thank you, reviewing PRs is one of the things that definitely helps
and what I was hoping for when I wrote

> That being said, if you or others want to help out with projects I (co)maintain such as `bytestring`, please get into contact with me. There are things you can do to help with the review of PRs and other tasks that benefit from as many hands or eyes as possible and which would reduce the workload during the focused batch-phase when the careful dedicated release processes is initiated.

But please; let's coordinate directly -- we've done so frequently via
Hangout during your GSOC in the past -- than devolving into unhelpful
public shade-throwing at how maintenance is currently performed; that
is, if the goal is to actually help the project.

-- Herbert
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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Fumiaki Kinoshita
Hello,

I see some activity on GitHub; this strongly motivates me to start doing something concrete! 
Just looking at the situation, it definitely needs more reviewing - also I'm going to add tests and benchmarks to the pull requests.

Given apparent absence of dcoutts, I'm curious we organise this in the future - currently a number of things are blocked on his response. If he's unable to spend time on it for some reason, I think that's much better to have Herbert or someone else as a primary maintainer.

2019年12月19日(木) 16:20 Herbert Valerio Riedel <[hidden email]>:
Hi Simon,

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:43 AM Simon Jakobi
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Your email prompted me to review a few PRs today:

Thank you, reviewing PRs is one of the things that definitely helps
and what I was hoping for when I wrote

> That being said, if you or others want to help out with projects I (co)maintain such as `bytestring`, please get into contact with me. There are things you can do to help with the review of PRs and other tasks that benefit from as many hands or eyes as possible and which would reduce the workload during the focused batch-phase when the careful dedicated release processes is initiated.

But please; let's coordinate directly -- we've done so frequently via
Hangout during your GSOC in the past -- than devolving into unhelpful
public shade-throwing at how maintenance is currently performed; that
is, if the goal is to actually help the project.

-- Herbert

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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Carter Schonwald
I’m reasonably comfortable saying duncan should not be  in the loop on this stuff.  He hasn’t been active or communicating accessibly in a while.  And that’s fine.   Peoples lives are complicated and busy. Let’s move forward. 

Let’s move forward and just make sure we do a very meticulous and thoughtful execution of progressing bytestring. 

(On a personal level, some of my fall oss plans fell on the wayside after my 12 yr old niece got very sick in September).  

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:25 AM Fumiaki Kinoshita <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I see some activity on GitHub; this strongly motivates me to start doing something concrete! 
Just looking at the situation, it definitely needs more reviewing - also I'm going to add tests and benchmarks to the pull requests.

Given apparent absence of dcoutts, I'm curious we organise this in the future - currently a number of things are blocked on his response. If he's unable to spend time on it for some reason, I think that's much better to have Herbert or someone else as a primary maintainer.

2019年12月19日(木) 16:20 Herbert Valerio Riedel <[hidden email]>:
Hi Simon,

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:43 AM Simon Jakobi
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Your email prompted me to review a few PRs today:

Thank you, reviewing PRs is one of the things that definitely helps
and what I was hoping for when I wrote

> That being said, if you or others want to help out with projects I (co)maintain such as `bytestring`, please get into contact with me. There are things you can do to help with the review of PRs and other tasks that benefit from as many hands or eyes as possible and which would reduce the workload during the focused batch-phase when the careful dedicated release processes is initiated.

But please; let's coordinate directly -- we've done so frequently via
Hangout during your GSOC in the past -- than devolving into unhelpful
public shade-throwing at how maintenance is currently performed; that
is, if the goal is to actually help the project.

-- Herbert
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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Haskell - Libraries mailing list
In reply to this post by Herbert Valerio Riedel-3
Hi Herbert,

I apologize for the overly harsh and accusatory tone in my last email.
After looking through the existing PRs and issues, I was admittedly
somewhat disappointed over the current situation with bytestring
issues and PRs, but I shouldn't have expressed my feelings in this
way.

Also, thanks a lot for responding so quickly today to my many comments
on issues and PRs.

To be clear, I'm not interested in putting blame on you or Duncan or
anyone else. I do however strongly believe that bytestring needs a
more responsive maintainer:

1. Contributors IMO deserve to get a response within weeks or ideally days.

2. bytestring users (and that transitively includes all GHC users)
could benefit massively if some of the current PRs were finally
merged. For example in [#175], Sylvain Henry reports improvements of
**11%** for some compilation tasks when he used the PR to build GHC.

And I admittedly don't want to ask you, Herbert, to lead the effort of
clearing up the maintenance backlog in bytestring. Of course, _any_
Haskell project you're involved in benefits from your massive
experience! However, I feel that since your involvement is so crucial
in so many other essential projects in the Haskell ecosystem, if you
would shift your focus towards bytestring, these other projects would
suffer! I also believe that projects like cabal or Hackage need your
domain knowledge more dearly than bytestring does. So to ask you to
allocate more time to bytestring, would feel a bit like a zero-sum
game, or possibly a negative-sum game.

A second, more personal reason, why I would prefer to see a different
maintainer for bytestring, is your preference for coordinating things
in private communication. The many PRs and issues in the bytestring
project, and this email thread demonstrate that there are a lot of
people who would like to be involved in improving bytestring. Private
coordination would exclude most of them, and make it more difficult to
make use of all the help that this project currently needs. I
understand that your preference for private communication is related
to your experiences with previous discussions over Haskell projects,
and I am sorry that it has come so far, but I believe that a more open
and transparent style of communication is more healthy.

So, while I'm very grateful for your work on bytestring, and while I
hope that you stay involved in the project, I hope that that someone
else can take over official maintainer duties.

Now I am not sure who could take on that job. Clearly we need someone
whom Duncan trusts. That's why I wonder whether someone involved in
the performance work on GHC could help. Ultimately I don't think that
their time involvement would need to be very high – good judgment and
responsiveness seem more important to me. I'm CC'ing the ghc-devs
list, hoping that someone with the right experience and availability
would come forward.

Thanks,
Simon

[#175] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/175#issuecomment-567233984
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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

David Feuer
One thing that would help a bit, I imagine, would be to improve the
treatment of unsafeDupablePerformIO in GHC so that bytestring can drop
the fragile accursedUnutterablePerformIO without significant
performance loss. There's been some discussion about how to do so, but
no resolution has been reached.

On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 11:21 AM Simon Jakobi via Libraries
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Herbert,
>
> I apologize for the overly harsh and accusatory tone in my last email.
> After looking through the existing PRs and issues, I was admittedly
> somewhat disappointed over the current situation with bytestring
> issues and PRs, but I shouldn't have expressed my feelings in this
> way.
>
> Also, thanks a lot for responding so quickly today to my many comments
> on issues and PRs.
>
> To be clear, I'm not interested in putting blame on you or Duncan or
> anyone else. I do however strongly believe that bytestring needs a
> more responsive maintainer:
>
> 1. Contributors IMO deserve to get a response within weeks or ideally days.
>
> 2. bytestring users (and that transitively includes all GHC users)
> could benefit massively if some of the current PRs were finally
> merged. For example in [#175], Sylvain Henry reports improvements of
> **11%** for some compilation tasks when he used the PR to build GHC.
>
> And I admittedly don't want to ask you, Herbert, to lead the effort of
> clearing up the maintenance backlog in bytestring. Of course, _any_
> Haskell project you're involved in benefits from your massive
> experience! However, I feel that since your involvement is so crucial
> in so many other essential projects in the Haskell ecosystem, if you
> would shift your focus towards bytestring, these other projects would
> suffer! I also believe that projects like cabal or Hackage need your
> domain knowledge more dearly than bytestring does. So to ask you to
> allocate more time to bytestring, would feel a bit like a zero-sum
> game, or possibly a negative-sum game.
>
> A second, more personal reason, why I would prefer to see a different
> maintainer for bytestring, is your preference for coordinating things
> in private communication. The many PRs and issues in the bytestring
> project, and this email thread demonstrate that there are a lot of
> people who would like to be involved in improving bytestring. Private
> coordination would exclude most of them, and make it more difficult to
> make use of all the help that this project currently needs. I
> understand that your preference for private communication is related
> to your experiences with previous discussions over Haskell projects,
> and I am sorry that it has come so far, but I believe that a more open
> and transparent style of communication is more healthy.
>
> So, while I'm very grateful for your work on bytestring, and while I
> hope that you stay involved in the project, I hope that that someone
> else can take over official maintainer duties.
>
> Now I am not sure who could take on that job. Clearly we need someone
> whom Duncan trusts. That's why I wonder whether someone involved in
> the performance work on GHC could help. Ultimately I don't think that
> their time involvement would need to be very high – good judgment and
> responsiveness seem more important to me. I'm CC'ing the ghc-devs
> list, hoping that someone with the right experience and availability
> would come forward.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon
>
> [#175] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/175#issuecomment-567233984
> _______________________________________________
> Libraries mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries
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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Haskell - Libraries mailing list
In reply to this post by Haskell - Libraries mailing list
I'm also CC'ing the core libraries committee – sorry for not realizing
earlier that they would be interested in this discussion!

Am Do., 19. Dez. 2019 um 17:20 Uhr schrieb Simon Jakobi
<[hidden email]>:

>
> Hi Herbert,
>
> I apologize for the overly harsh and accusatory tone in my last email.
> After looking through the existing PRs and issues, I was admittedly
> somewhat disappointed over the current situation with bytestring
> issues and PRs, but I shouldn't have expressed my feelings in this
> way.
>
> Also, thanks a lot for responding so quickly today to my many comments
> on issues and PRs.
>
> To be clear, I'm not interested in putting blame on you or Duncan or
> anyone else. I do however strongly believe that bytestring needs a
> more responsive maintainer:
>
> 1. Contributors IMO deserve to get a response within weeks or ideally days.
>
> 2. bytestring users (and that transitively includes all GHC users)
> could benefit massively if some of the current PRs were finally
> merged. For example in [#175], Sylvain Henry reports improvements of
> **11%** for some compilation tasks when he used the PR to build GHC.
>
> And I admittedly don't want to ask you, Herbert, to lead the effort of
> clearing up the maintenance backlog in bytestring. Of course, _any_
> Haskell project you're involved in benefits from your massive
> experience! However, I feel that since your involvement is so crucial
> in so many other essential projects in the Haskell ecosystem, if you
> would shift your focus towards bytestring, these other projects would
> suffer! I also believe that projects like cabal or Hackage need your
> domain knowledge more dearly than bytestring does. So to ask you to
> allocate more time to bytestring, would feel a bit like a zero-sum
> game, or possibly a negative-sum game.
>
> A second, more personal reason, why I would prefer to see a different
> maintainer for bytestring, is your preference for coordinating things
> in private communication. The many PRs and issues in the bytestring
> project, and this email thread demonstrate that there are a lot of
> people who would like to be involved in improving bytestring. Private
> coordination would exclude most of them, and make it more difficult to
> make use of all the help that this project currently needs. I
> understand that your preference for private communication is related
> to your experiences with previous discussions over Haskell projects,
> and I am sorry that it has come so far, but I believe that a more open
> and transparent style of communication is more healthy.
>
> So, while I'm very grateful for your work on bytestring, and while I
> hope that you stay involved in the project, I hope that that someone
> else can take over official maintainer duties.
>
> Now I am not sure who could take on that job. Clearly we need someone
> whom Duncan trusts. That's why I wonder whether someone involved in
> the performance work on GHC could help. Ultimately I don't think that
> their time involvement would need to be very high – good judgment and
> responsiveness seem more important to me. I'm CC'ing the ghc-devs
> list, hoping that someone with the right experience and availability
> would come forward.
>
> Thanks,
> Simon
>
> [#175] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/175#issuecomment-567233984
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Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Haskell - Libraries mailing list
Hi again, and happy new year! :)

I'd like to revive this thread, now that the holiday season has
passed. Sorry for my somewhat naive attempts to get people involved in
my last emails – I have shortened my CC-list since. :)

I have noticed some healthy activity in the bytestring project in the meantime:

* Duncan suggested in [#198] that GHC 8.10.1 use the existing
bytestring-0.10.10.0 release.

* [#140] has seen more productive discussion on the future of
ByteString's IsString instance, with much valuable input from Herbert.

* At least 3 PRs ([#142], [#196], [#182]) have become ready for merge
(as far as I can tell), although they didn't get a maintainer response
in the last 3 weeks, which I largely attribute to the holidays.

* [#196], which I prepared with the help of Sylvain Henry, fixed the
build of bytestring's benchmark suite which had been broken since 2015
([#52]), and which had been an impediment to many PRs since. This has
allowed me to detect a rather worrying performance regression in GHC
8.10, [#17660].

Many thanks to everyone involved! :)

What remains unclear to me is who will lead the effort of taking care
of bytestring's backlog of open PRs and issues. I still doubt that
Duncan or Herbert have the necessary bandwidth.

Duncan, I would be very grateful if you could share your own
perspective on this in this thread!

Since I had addressed my last email to the CLC, I also wonder about
their perspective on the issue. I have since noticed that bytestring
is in fact not one of the core [libraries] that the CLC officially
maintains. Is the CLC possibly interested in adopting bytestring,
and/or to get involved in improving the maintenance situation in
bytestring? This is just an idea – I don't actually know what power or
resources the CLC could contribute here.

Cheers,
Simon

[#52] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/52
[#140] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/140
[#142] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/142
[#182] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/182
[#196] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/196
[#198] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/198
[#17660] https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/issues/17660
[libraries] https://wiki.haskell.org/Library_submissions#The_Libraries
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Re: [core libraries] Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

George Wilson
According to this [table], bytestring is a boot library, so by reason
3 listed in  [libraries], I believe bytestring already comes under the
CLC. In that case, the latter page should be updated.

It's possible the committee could provide some assistance on the
backlog of issues and PRs. But working on one of the high performance
libraries like bytestring (another example is vector) requires
delicate care, so I think for the most part it would be difficult for
committee members to help in a "drive-by" capacity. I too am
interested in whether Duncan and Herbert would find another maintainer
helpful.

[table] https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history
[libraries] https://wiki.haskell.org/Library_submissions#The_Libraries

Cheers,
George

On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 at 05:07, 'Simon Jakobi' via
haskell-core-libraries <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> Hi again, and happy new year! :)
>
> I'd like to revive this thread, now that the holiday season has
> passed. Sorry for my somewhat naive attempts to get people involved in
> my last emails – I have shortened my CC-list since. :)
>
> I have noticed some healthy activity in the bytestring project in the meantime:
>
> * Duncan suggested in [#198] that GHC 8.10.1 use the existing
> bytestring-0.10.10.0 release.
>
> * [#140] has seen more productive discussion on the future of
> ByteString's IsString instance, with much valuable input from Herbert.
>
> * At least 3 PRs ([#142], [#196], [#182]) have become ready for merge
> (as far as I can tell), although they didn't get a maintainer response
> in the last 3 weeks, which I largely attribute to the holidays.
>
> * [#196], which I prepared with the help of Sylvain Henry, fixed the
> build of bytestring's benchmark suite which had been broken since 2015
> ([#52]), and which had been an impediment to many PRs since. This has
> allowed me to detect a rather worrying performance regression in GHC
> 8.10, [#17660].
>
> Many thanks to everyone involved! :)
>
> What remains unclear to me is who will lead the effort of taking care
> of bytestring's backlog of open PRs and issues. I still doubt that
> Duncan or Herbert have the necessary bandwidth.
>
> Duncan, I would be very grateful if you could share your own
> perspective on this in this thread!
>
> Since I had addressed my last email to the CLC, I also wonder about
> their perspective on the issue. I have since noticed that bytestring
> is in fact not one of the core [libraries] that the CLC officially
> maintains. Is the CLC possibly interested in adopting bytestring,
> and/or to get involved in improving the maintenance situation in
> bytestring? This is just an idea – I don't actually know what power or
> resources the CLC could contribute here.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
> [#52] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/52
> [#140] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/140
> [#142] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/142
> [#182] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/182
> [#196] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/196
> [#198] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/198
> [#17660] https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/issues/17660
> [libraries] https://wiki.haskell.org/Library_submissions#The_Libraries
>
> --
>
>
>
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Re: [core libraries] Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Carter Schonwald
To the extent that hvr the current maintainer wants help from fellow clc, we’re available albeit finite bandwidth.  

Ghc has had a lot of optimizer regressions wrt core libraries for some time now.  The challenge is that the bandwidth etc to straddle both legs is quite a bit of effort! 

On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 3:32 AM George Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:
According to this [table], bytestring is a boot library, so by reason
3 listed in  [libraries], I believe bytestring already comes under the
CLC. In that case, the latter page should be updated.

It's possible the committee could provide some assistance on the
backlog of issues and PRs. But working on one of the high performance
libraries like bytestring (another example is vector) requires
delicate care, so I think for the most part it would be difficult for
committee members to help in a "drive-by" capacity. I too am
interested in whether Duncan and Herbert would find another maintainer
helpful.

[table] https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/wikis/commentary/libraries/version-history
[libraries] https://wiki.haskell.org/Library_submissions#The_Libraries

Cheers,
George

On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 at 05:07, 'Simon Jakobi' via
haskell-core-libraries <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>
> Hi again, and happy new year! :)
>
> I'd like to revive this thread, now that the holiday season has
> passed. Sorry for my somewhat naive attempts to get people involved in
> my last emails – I have shortened my CC-list since. :)
>
> I have noticed some healthy activity in the bytestring project in the meantime:
>
> * Duncan suggested in [#198] that GHC 8.10.1 use the existing
> bytestring-0.10.10.0 release.
>
> * [#140] has seen more productive discussion on the future of
> ByteString's IsString instance, with much valuable input from Herbert.
>
> * At least 3 PRs ([#142], [#196], [#182]) have become ready for merge
> (as far as I can tell), although they didn't get a maintainer response
> in the last 3 weeks, which I largely attribute to the holidays.
>
> * [#196], which I prepared with the help of Sylvain Henry, fixed the
> build of bytestring's benchmark suite which had been broken since 2015
> ([#52]), and which had been an impediment to many PRs since. This has
> allowed me to detect a rather worrying performance regression in GHC
> 8.10, [#17660].
>
> Many thanks to everyone involved! :)
>
> What remains unclear to me is who will lead the effort of taking care
> of bytestring's backlog of open PRs and issues. I still doubt that
> Duncan or Herbert have the necessary bandwidth.
>
> Duncan, I would be very grateful if you could share your own
> perspective on this in this thread!
>
> Since I had addressed my last email to the CLC, I also wonder about
> their perspective on the issue. I have since noticed that bytestring
> is in fact not one of the core [libraries] that the CLC officially
> maintains. Is the CLC possibly interested in adopting bytestring,
> and/or to get involved in improving the maintenance situation in
> bytestring? This is just an idea – I don't actually know what power or
> resources the CLC could contribute here.
>
> Cheers,
> Simon
>
> [#52] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/52
> [#140] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/140
> [#142] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/142
> [#182] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/182
> [#196] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/pull/196
> [#198] https://github.com/haskell/bytestring/issues/198
> [#17660] https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/issues/17660
> [libraries] https://wiki.haskell.org/Library_submissions#The_Libraries
>
> --
> > >
--

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Re: [core libraries] Re: haskell/bytestring stalled?

Haskell - Libraries mailing list
In reply to this post by George Wilson
Am So., 12. Jan. 2020 um 09:32 Uhr schrieb George Wilson <[hidden email]>:
>
> According to this [table], bytestring is a boot library, so by reason
> 3 listed in  [libraries], I believe bytestring already comes under the
> CLC. In that case, the latter page should be updated.

Thanks George, that's an interesting perspective!

Edward, as the CLC Chair, can you confirm that the CLC in fact
maintains the bytestring library, or clarify what the status of
bytestring in the core libraries is?


> [...] I too am
> interested in whether Duncan and Herbert would find another maintainer
> helpful.

In a brief private email exchange Herbert mentioned that due to
bytestring's critical importance to the ecosystem, Duncan and him
don't want others to make important decisions on bytestring or take
care of the release management.

I think that's rather understandable. IMHO these requirements should
be compatible with some kind of "co-maintainer" role – I have a
similar arrangement with Heinrich Apfelmus regarding the maintenance
of threepenny-gui.

Here's a sketch of what I imagine such a co-maintainer arrangement
could look like in bytestring:

* A co-maintainer cannot upload to Hackage, leaving that to Duncan or Herbert.

* A co-maintainer can merge non-breaking changes – after waiting for a
certain feedback period in the case of user-facing changes.

* A co-maintainer can also help prepare breaking changes and other
important decisions, but would have to leave the final decision to
Duncan, Herbert and, as necessary, the CLC.

IMHO such an arrangement could greatly improve the current situation,
and hopefully allow Herbert and Duncan to focus on the most important
decisions, where their expertise is needed the most.

Herbert, Duncan, what do you think about this idea of a adding a
"co-maintainer"? Would you require any changes to the arrangement to
make it work for you?

Of course, we still need to find one or more good candidates for the
role – is anyone interested?

Cheers,
Simon
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