many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
18 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Takenobu Tani
Hi,

I'm using gmail.
Recently, many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail.
(ghc-devs, haskell-cafe, ghc-commit, ...)

Does anyone know why?
Do you know the workaround?

Regards,
Takenobu


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Arian van Putten
If I recall correctly it's being worked on.  There is a plan to harden the haskell.org domain during the holidays by introducing DKIM and setting up DMARC.  There is a thread in haskell-cafe titled "[Haskell-cafe] Work on mail.haskell.org beginning, please report any problems"  with more info. 

On Sun, 25 Dec 2016, 09:35 Takenobu Tani, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm using gmail.
Recently, many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail.
(ghc-devs, haskell-cafe, ghc-commit, ...)

Does anyone know why?
Do you know the workaround?

Regards,
Takenobu

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Geraldus
I've noticed this too.

вс, 25 дек. 2016 г. в 14:34, Arian van Putten <[hidden email]>:
If I recall correctly it's being worked on.  There is a plan to harden the haskell.org domain during the holidays by introducing DKIM and setting up DMARC.  There is a thread in haskell-cafe titled "[Haskell-cafe] Work on mail.haskell.org beginning, please report any problems"  with more info. 

On Sun, 25 Dec 2016, 09:35 Takenobu Tani, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm using gmail.
Recently, many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail.
(ghc-devs, haskell-cafe, ghc-commit, ...)

Does anyone know why?
Do you know the workaround?

Regards,
Takenobu

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Takenobu Tani
In reply to this post by Arian van Putten
Hi Arian ,

Thank you for information.
At least from about 11th December, detection of the spam have been increasing.

I'll report them after I understand it.

Regards,
Takenobu


2016-12-25 18:34 GMT+09:00 Arian van Putten <[hidden email]>:
If I recall correctly it's being worked on.  There is a plan to harden the haskell.org domain during the holidays by introducing DKIM and setting up DMARC.  There is a thread in haskell-cafe titled "[Haskell-cafe] Work on mail.haskell.org beginning, please report any problems"  with more info. 

On Sun, 25 Dec 2016, 09:35 Takenobu Tani, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm using gmail.
Recently, many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail.
(ghc-devs, haskell-cafe, ghc-commit, ...)

Does anyone know why?
Do you know the workaround?

Regards,
Takenobu

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.


_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

John Wiegley-2
In reply to this post by Takenobu Tani
>>>>> "TT" == Takenobu Tani <[hidden email]> writes:

TT> I'm using gmail.
TT> Recently, many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail.
TT> (ghc-devs, haskell-cafe, ghc-commit, ...)

TT> Does anyone know why?
TT> Do you know the workaround?

This could be due to changes I've made recently on the mail server.  Can you
please send the full text of some of those mails to [hidden email]?

Thanks,
--
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Mihai Maruseac
I noticed this before the announcements of those changes. It was only
for e-mails sent from Yahoo! mail.

Since I know that Yahoo! has some stupid policies regarding DMARC I
ignored it. This is an issue with almost all mailing lists in the
world, just Yahoo! using stupid settings.

On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 10:20 AM, John Wiegley <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>>>>> "TT" == Takenobu Tani <[hidden email]> writes:
>
> TT> I'm using gmail.
> TT> Recently, many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail.
> TT> (ghc-devs, haskell-cafe, ghc-commit, ...)
>
> TT> Does anyone know why?
> TT> Do you know the workaround?
>
> This could be due to changes I've made recently on the mail server.  Can you
> please send the full text of some of those mails to [hidden email]?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
> http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
> _______________________________________________
> Haskell-Cafe mailing list
> To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
> Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.



--
Mihai Maruseac (MM)
"If you can't solve a problem, then there's an easier problem you can
solve: find it." -- George Polya
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Viktor Dukhovni
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 01:38:07PM -0800, Mihai Maruseac wrote:

> I noticed this before the announcements of those changes. It was only
> for e-mails sent from Yahoo! mail.
>
> Since I know that Yahoo! has some stupid policies regarding DMARC I
> ignored it. This is an issue with almost all mailing lists in the
> world, just Yahoo! using stupid settings.

There are a few choices for working around this issue.  My personal
preference, which I hope is acceptable to the list community, is
to avoid modifying the message subject and body.  That is, the onus
of adding a "[Haskell-cafe] " subject prefix falls on message
authors (and those who respond if the tag is not yet present).
And the list [message footer is not added.

    _______________________________________________
    Haskell-Cafe mailing list
    To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
    http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
    Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.

The "List-" headers contain all the requisite (un)sub information.

If leaving the message unmolested is deemed no acceptable, then
the "mailman" list manager provides a number of alternative
DMARC work-arounds that mangle the message "From" field in
various ways.  Consult the mailman docs.

--
        Viktor.
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

John Wiegley-2
>>>>> "VD" == Viktor Dukhovni <[hidden email]> writes:

VD> If leaving the message unmolested is deemed no acceptable, then the
VD> "mailman" list manager provides a number of alternative DMARC work-arounds
VD> that mangle the message "From" field in various ways. Consult the mailman
VD> docs.

We recently enabled these workarounds (I think about 6 months ago?) in
response to others telling us that mail wasn't being delivered.  I think
Gershom remembers doing this.  Apparently, it's not enough of a solution.

--
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Joachim Durchholz
In reply to this post by Viktor Dukhovni
Am 25.12.2016 um 23:59 schrieb Viktor Dukhovni:
> My personal
> preference, which I hope is acceptable to the list community, is
> to avoid modifying the message subject and body.

Does this also mean you cannot modify headers?
That would be bad, because having a List-Id header enables "reply to
list" and such.

 > That is, the onus
> of adding a "[Haskell-cafe] " subject prefix falls on message
> authors (and those who respond if the tag is not yet present).

I never understood why people want to mangle the subject line anyway;
the recipient is easily seen in the "recipient" column of the list of
mails. But maybe there's a reason to not have that column, IDK.

> And the list [message footer is not added.

The footer is actually nice to have.
But in my book, that's not important enough to hinder dealing with spam
filters.

Just my 2c.
Jo
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Viktor Dukhovni

> On Dec 26, 2016, at 6:31 AM, Joachim Durchholz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> My personal
>> preference, which I hope is acceptable to the list community, is
>> to avoid modifying the message subject and body.
>
> Does this also mean you cannot modify headers?

It means that you can add headers, but should avoid changing headers that
are already present.  DKIM signatures generally cover those headers that
already present in a message, and leave room for additional headers.

> That would be bad, because having a List-Id header enables "reply to list" and such.

The addition of "List-" headers does not break DKIM signatures, as origin
DKIM signatures do not cover these (absent at the origin) headers.  (I'm
over simplifying, but the fine points are not important here).

> > That is, the onus
>> of adding a "[Haskell-cafe] " subject prefix falls on message
>> authors (and those who respond if the tag is not yet present).
>
> I never understood why people want to mangle the subject line anyway;
> the recipient is easily seen in the "recipient" column of the list of
> mails. But maybe there's a reason to not have that column, IDK.

Some people really want subject tags.  If they can do without, it is
easier to avoid DMARC trouble, provided they can also do without footers.

>> And the list [message footer is not added.
>
> The footer is actually nice to have.
> But in my book, that's not important enough to hinder dealing with
> spam filters.

Both the footer and subject tags would need to go. There's no point in
changing just one of the settings.  The DKIM signature covers both the
message headers (as present at the origin) and the body content.

--
        Viktor.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Pierpaolo Bernardi
In reply to this post by Joachim Durchholz
On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Joachim Durchholz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Am 25.12.2016 um 23:59 schrieb Viktor Dukhovni:

> I never understood why people want to mangle the subject line anyway; the
> recipient is easily seen in the "recipient" column of the list of mails. But
> maybe there's a reason to not have that column, IDK.

Emails don't have "columns".  These must be a feature of the
particular email client you use.
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Francesco Ariis
In reply to this post by Viktor Dukhovni
On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 at 10:59:36PM +0000, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
> And the list [message footer is not added.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Haskell-Cafe mailing list
>     To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
>     http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
>     Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
>
> The "List-" headers contain all the requisite (un)sub information.

I wouldn't delete the footer, especially the unsub information.
Some users are new to mailing lists and how they work; I frequently
witness frustration and misunderstandings over how to unsubscribe.
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Viktor Dukhovni

> On Dec 26, 2016, at 2:25 PM, Francesco Ariis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I wouldn't delete the footer, especially the unsub information.
> Some users are new to mailing lists and how they work; I frequently
> witness frustration and misunderstandings over how to unsubscribe.

Sure, but it is a trade-off.  DMARC imposes a penalty on adding a
footer, the DKIM signature breaks, and p=reject kicks in, unless
we start mangling the From lines, which is IMHO worse, but opinions
vary...  On the postfix-users list, majordomo (not mailman) is configured
to detect various attempts at (un)sub and blocks the post, responding to
the user instead with helpful directions.  False positives happen rarely,
but as the list is email related, not never, and one has to rephrase some
posts to get around the filter.

--
        Viktor.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Niklas Hambüchen
In reply to this post by Takenobu Tani
Despite Google's public claims to the contrary, I have found the Gmail
spam filter not to work too reliably; I've had cases where it blocked
important emails like "OK, here's my invoice (PDF attached)" in the
middle of long email threads, of which messages were otherwise let
through without problem.

As a result, I disabled the Gmail spam filter completely; these
instructions worked for me:

http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/69442/how-to-disable-gmail-anti-spam-completely

You may consider this too if the various technical things people are
working on in the other replies don't improve the situation for you.

On 25/12/16 09:35, Takenobu Tani wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm using gmail.
> Recently, many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail.
> (ghc-devs, haskell-cafe, ghc-commit, ...)
>
> Does anyone know why?
> Do you know the workaround?
>
> Regards,
> Takenobu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ghc-devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
>
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Brandon Allbery

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 5:11 AM, Niklas Hambüchen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Despite Google's public claims to the contrary, I have found the Gmail
spam filter not to work too reliably

I think it depends on your use case (and it's rather indicative of the core problem of spam detection that spam is hard to distinguish from real messages about e.g. attached invoices). I've had maybe 8 Haskell list messages land in my spamtrap, gradually getting rarer as I "mark as not spam" them.

--
brandon s allbery kf8nh                               sine nomine associates
[hidden email]                                  [hidden email]
unix, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure, xmonad        http://sinenomine.net

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Yitzchak Gale
In reply to this post by Viktor Dukhovni
Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
>>> ...avoid modifying the message subject and body.

Joachim Durchholz wrote:
>> The footer is actually nice to have.

> Both the footer and subject tags would need to go.

I believe adding the unsubscribe link in the footer is
required by law in the US.

Yitz
_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Viktor Dukhovni

> On Dec 28, 2016, at 4:59 PM, Yitzchak Gale <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I believe adding the unsubscribe link in the footer is
> required by law in the US.

There are plenty of lists with no such footers.  For example,
[hidden email], [hidden email], ...

Mailing lists do subscription confirmation, so don't need opt-out.
Unsubscribe instructions are also sent when first joining the list,
and often in monthly list-membership reminders.

In addition there a List-Unsubscribe header.  So there's scant
evince for the applicability of alleged requirement to add a
footer.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business

   Despite its name, the CAN-SPAM Act doesn’t apply just to bulk email.
   It covers all commercial messages, which the law defines as “any
   electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the
   commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or
   service,” including email that promotes content on commercial
   websites. The law makes no exception for business-to-business email.
   That means all email – for example, a message to former customers
   announcing a new product line – must comply with the law.

Group interest mailing lists seem rather clearly out of scope.

--
        Viktor.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: many haskell's mails are detected as spam on gmail

Michael Orlitzky
In reply to this post by Yitzchak Gale
On 12/28/2016 04:59 PM, Yitzchak Gale wrote:
>
> I believe adding the unsubscribe link in the footer is
> required by law in the US.
>

If you're referring to the CAN-SPAM act, then the first reason that it
wouldn't apply is that these messages aren't commercial. The second
would be that you've given consent to receive them. There are probably more.

_______________________________________________
Haskell-Cafe mailing list
To (un)subscribe, modify options or view archives go to:
http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Only members subscribed via the mailman list are allowed to post.