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Zed Becker

Hi all,


Haskell, is arguably the best example of a design-by-committee language. The syntax is clean and most importantly, consistent. The essence of a purely functional programming is maintained, without disturbing its real world capacity.


To all the people who revise the Haskell standard, and implement the language,

      1. Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that you will keep up the good effort :)

      2. Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that Haskell will always spiritually remain the same clean, consistent programming language as it is now!


Regards,

Zed Becker


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Re: (no subject)

Tobias Dammers
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 05:41:05PM +0530, Zed Becker wrote:
>
>  Haskell, is arguably the best example of a design-by-committee language.

You do realize that "design-by-committee" is generally understood to
refer to the antipattern where a committee discusses a design to death
and delivers an inconsistent, mediocre spec, as opposed to a situation
where a leader figure takes the loose ends, runs with them, and turns
them into a coherent, inspiring whole?

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Re: (no subject)

Tom Ellis
In reply to this post by Zed Becker
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 05:41:05PM +0530, Zed Becker wrote:

>  Haskell, is arguably the best example of a design-by-committee language.
> The syntax is clean and most importantly, consistent. The essence of a
> purely functional programming is maintained, without disturbing its real
> world capacity.
>
>  To all the people who revise the Haskell standard, and implement the
> language,
>
>    1.  Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that you will keep
>        up the good effort :)
>    2.  Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that Haskell will
>        always spiritually remain the same clean, consistent programming
>        language as it is now!

Hear hear!  Hopefully we, the Haskell community, will be able to support
this endevour with our time and efforts.

Tom

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Re: (no subject)

Flavio Villanustre
In reply to this post by Zed Becker
Zed,

while I don't disagree regarding the clean and consistent syntax of Haskell, do you realize that some people would argue that camels are horses designed by committee too? :)

While designing by committee guarantees agreement across a large number of people, it does not always ensure efficiency, as committees may lead to poor compromises, sometimes. 

However, Haskell may be an example of a good case of design-by-committee computer language.

Flavio

Flavio Villanustre


On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 8:11 AM, Zed Becker <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,


Haskell, is arguably the best example of a design-by-committee language. The syntax is clean and most importantly, consistent. The essence of a purely functional programming is maintained, without disturbing its real world capacity.


To all the people who revise the Haskell standard, and implement the language,

      1. Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that you will keep up the good effort :)

      2. Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that Haskell will always spiritually remain the same clean, consistent programming language as it is now!


Regards,

Zed Becker


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Re: (no subject)

Jerzy Karczmarczuk
Hmmmmm...

Haskell was developed by teams, but we had BEFORE: hope, miranda, ML ... The heritage is quite important.
And individuals (say, Mark Jones) contributed to Haskell constructs. So, the design is not entirely "committe based"

      1. Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that Haskell will always spiritually remain the same clean, consistent programming language as it is now!

Yes.
Dear Mom, dear Dad! Promise me that you will never die...

I wish that for all of you.
Jerzy Karczmarczuk


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Only vaporware needs promises

Ertugrul Söylemez
In reply to this post by Tom Ellis
Tom Ellis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hear hear!  Hopefully we, the Haskell community, will be able to
> support this endevour with our time and efforts.

Every Haskell user does this in their own way by use, feedback, uploads
to Hackage, authoring wiki articles or blog articles or simply by
helping people.  The Haskell community has a huge momentum right now and
the language is developed by smart people.

What does /not/ help is a thread like this.  If you want to support the
development of Haskell, don't unsafeCoerce people into making useless
promises.  Instead grab your web browser, text editor or whiteboard and
do your part!


Greets,
Ertugrul

--
Not to be or to be and (not to be or to be and (not to be or to be and
(not to be or to be and ... that is the list monad.

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Re: Only vaporware needs promises

Tom Ellis
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 03:21:28PM +0200, Ertugrul Söylemez wrote:

> Tom Ellis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hear hear!  Hopefully we, the Haskell community, will be able to
> > support this endevour with our time and efforts.
>
> Every Haskell user does this in their own way by use, feedback, uploads
> to Hackage, authoring wiki articles or blog articles or simply by
> helping people.  The Haskell community has a huge momentum right now and
> the language is developed by smart people.
>
> What does /not/ help is a thread like this.  If you want to support the
> development of Haskell, don't unsafeCoerce people into making useless
> promises.  Instead grab your web browser, text editor or whiteboard and
> do your part!

Indeed Ertugul, that's exactly what I mean.

Tom

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Re: (no subject)

MigMit
In reply to this post by Zed Becker
It really sounds rude, to demand promises from somebody who just gave you a big present.

Отправлено с iPhone

10.06.2013, в 16:11, Zed Becker <[hidden email]> написал(а):

Hi all,


Haskell, is arguably the best example of a design-by-committee language. The syntax is clean and most importantly, consistent. The essence of a purely functional programming is maintained, without disturbing its real world capacity.


To all the people who revise the Haskell standard, and implement the language,

      1. Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that you will keep up the good effort :)

      2. Promise to me, and the rest of the community, that Haskell will always spiritually remain the same clean, consistent programming language as it is now!


Regards,

Zed Becker

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Re: (no subject)

Tom Ellis
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 05:44:26PM +0400, MigMit wrote:
> It really sounds rude, to demand promises from somebody who just gave you a big present.

Without wishing to preempt Zed Becker, I interpreted his email as an
expression of delight at how well Haskell has been designed and of hope that
it may endure, rather than literally as a demand for the Haskell committee
to grant him promises.  I hope I haven't misunderstood.

Tom

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Re: (no subject)

Alberto G. Corona
In reply to this post by Tobias Dammers
I have ever wondered how a committee could have made Haskell.
 
My conclusion is the following:
 
For one side there were many mathematicians involved, the authors of the most terse language(s) existent: the math notation.  
 
For the other, the lemma "avoid success at all costs" which  kept the committee away of pressures for doing it quick and dirty and also freed it from deleterious individualities


2013/6/10 Tobias Dammers <[hidden email]>
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 05:41:05PM +0530, Zed Becker wrote:
>
>  Haskell, is arguably the best example of a design-by-committee language.

You do realize that "design-by-committee" is generally understood to
refer to the antipattern where a committee discusses a design to death
and delivers an inconsistent, mediocre spec, as opposed to a situation
where a leader figure takes the loose ends, runs with them, and turns
them into a coherent, inspiring whole?

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--
Alberto.

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Re: (no subject)

Richard A. O'Keefe

On 11/06/2013, at 1:58 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

> I have ever wondered how a committee could have made Haskell.

A committee made Algol 60, described as "an improvement on most
of its successors".  A committee maintains Scheme.

On the other hand, an individual gave us Perl.
And an individual gave us JavaScript.
And let's face it, an individual gave C++ its big start.


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